120hp build NA or Boosted?

[jdwin]

So I have stripped down this engine and am intending to rebuild it. My goal is 120ish horsepower. (i was told that the transmission won't handle much more than that)

So my question is as follows, would it be more economical to build a naturally aspirated engine to hit 120hp, or to use some form of boost? either turbo or supercharger. the car will be a daily driver (except on bad weather maybe)

For Na stuff, I'm relatively well versed I know that number can be hit. Increase displacement adds an aggressive cam, better flowing heads, and nice carb and viola. your making power.

However, I think it would be cool to add some form of boost. I saw a turbo kit from a company low bugget and supposedly I need only upgrade the valve train. It sounds too good to be true I think. The engine is a type 1 bug engine, I'm not sure how well it can handle boost.

Alternatively, I could go supercharger, I know turbos like higher rpm's, something the bug isn't naturally suited to. The supercharger I found is from a site called http://joeblow.me/

Thanks for any replies to my, likely hairbrained scheme.

[Alstrup]

[Howard 111]

[TinCanFab]

I'm going to chime in here because I have some experience with both kits you are looking at. The lowbugget kit will definately get you to 120hp easy with a basic 1600. I really think it compliments a bigger 2 liter engine for that kind of money. The header I got from AJ many years ago was really nice, but took almost a year to get. It was a hassle calling and thinking about it all the time. If I was to do it again, I would use someone else. Draw through turbo setups are all pretty similair and lots of guys can put together a kit for you. You still have to use decklid stand offs or run no decklid with all of them.

Now, the JoeBlow kit web page you posted was a bunch of hype and I didn't see any pictures. I'm almost positive that it uses the AMR500 Aisin supercharger or the other (bigger) SC series used on Toyota. Both of these were available in Australia where the JoeBlow kit comes from. I payed $100 plus shipping for the Aisin from an ebay seller in Japan. They came as factory equipment on Japan market micro cars. If you are running a 1600 or bigger, go with the SC Toyota blower instead.

As far as what is cheaper? If you can build it yourself, then 120hp is cheapest with a well built stock 1600 and your home built setup turbo or blower bolted to it.

Here's my version of the Joe Blow kit on a 40hp I'm building. No way would I run this tiny thing on a 1776. You should run the much larger SC, not the Aisin. It's a lot of work to build right and you still have to "engineer" the thing to actually perform. That still falls on you to properly pick all the components and tune. I'll have around $500 into when finished because there are lots of little things to buy as you go and that's with the cost of a brand new carb I have my eye on.

I loved all forced induction but VW people seem to think kits just slap on and you are done. It's a total commitment of modifying things from the fuel tank to the rear bumper. Even with my $100 supercharger it's not a walk in the park.
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[bugguy1967]

Joel Mohr at Mohr Performance has a cheap $1200 turbo kit that uses a rebuilt Kadron and a new Mitsubishi turbo. 120 HP on a used, bone stock 1600.

[vwracerdave]

A 120 HP NA engine would probably last a lot longer then a turbo engine would.
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[clonebug]

There are some Swede's or Norwegians that are running 30# boost at 7000-8000 rpm on a 1641cc and getting almost 400 hp and 10 sec 1/4 mile times out of them.


Link



120 whp from a stock 1600 will take at least 14 lbs. boost.

Your intake temps will be at about 260 plus degrees.

Timing control, W/I and/or Intercooler is recommended.

Turbos are great......there when you need them and always just a pedal push away.

I have been driving my turbo buggy for 25,000 miles now.
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[vwracerdave]

[clonebug]

[porkchop-rob]

[Dale M.]

Build decent 2180, put it at about 9.5:1 Engle 140 cam and dual HPMX 44.... Car I sold recently has basically engine above and it put 120 HP at wheels on chassis dyno....

Don't need blower it just makes build more complicated and you can brake tire loose any time you want in 1st & 2nd gear...

dale
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[mark tucker]

do a blow job. it's faster to do.then save up for a bigger motor to transfer the blow job to when it's ready.

[jdwin]

The budget isn't too much of a.concern. I would of course like to spend as little as possible but I also intend to do the job right


I think 120bp is easy (ish) to bit, blower or no. I think a boosted bug would be co though.

When i get home I'll post the engine I'm wanting to build. I guess the difference between boosted and Na would be the cam. Otherwise the two builds will be the same.

[fabricator john]

this is the golden rule of all hot rodding ,,,,, a very wise man (dad) told me 40yrs ago ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

"THERE ARE 3 THINGS"
1-"CHEAP"
2-"FAST"
3-"RELIABLE"
"OF THESE 3 YOU GET TO PICK 2"
"WHATS LEFT WILL NOT APPLY"

this applies to every car build ever , period

Fabricator John

[vugbug68]

[MURZI]

A simple, easy to build 2276 would do the trick.

82x94
W120, or w125 cam
Stock rockers with bolt together shafts
44 hpmx's.
CB's new 40x35 street heads
1 5/8 exhaust

Will go together like cake. Easy to build with off the shelf parts and will run forever.


Or how about a 1776/1835/1915
Fk42 cam. 1.25 rockers (adjuster on PR side)
049 revmasters or CB's new heads. 48cc
40 hpmx's with 32 vents
1.5 inch exhaust


I like the bigger engines because you have massive torque down low. On the street these are a pleasure to drive.
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62 vert
2276
Tim’s welded heads
45 Dells
A1 sidewinder
Fk44 cam

[clonebug]

[stan_tichomirov]

It costs the same as building a 1915, a bit more because of barrel spacers and h-beams. Pretty sure cheap AA 500-420 heads can make 120hp with 2276cc of displacement, at least it feels like they do. I think with 44IDFs it's almost too easy.

Stan
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Jansen Enterprise
My 1835cc build
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[clonebug]

[stan_tichomirov]

For experience, and difference in power delivery. It's snappy and easy to break traction in 2nd. It's an option. And it can make more, heads are the bottleneck.

Stan
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Aircooled.net
Jansen Enterprise
My 1835cc build
My budget 2276 build