My 4 Seater Buggy Project

[pullstart]

What I haven't figured out or sorted yet is the steering for the front upgrades. Who's to say the stock box couldn't be relocated to the center of the beam like a rack and pinion with equal length tie rods? It looks like the steering arm has a different center to center distance for the left and right side rods, would that matter? I would think that having equal length rods and relocating the box to the center would be much better geometry than stock, right?

[pullstart]

I've found a few threads on a few different forums about center mounted vw boxes, but I haven't found any real build threads. It seems there is a big debate whether to cut and straighten the pitman arm or leave it stock and no true examples of how or why. Any thoughts (pictures) or explanations? Thanks!

[oldschool5er]

Sure you can go center steer with stock box it has been done a lot but usually with a straightened arm but why?. If you go center steer just put in a rack and pinion, almost the same amount of work (welding in mount for it) with better results as long as you get the right ratio. You still will be buying u-joints and having to mod stuff no matter which way you go. The additional cost of the rack is not that much for what you are getting. Even the cheap chinese racks work on a recreational rail buggy, but the ratio and quality is not as good as a Saco for example and Saco has choices. But before that you need to decide on your beam either stock or something else ie: wider? that will determine the length tie rods and tie rod ends you will need no matter which way you go.
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HRE in Westerville,Ohio

Full machine shop with all types of CNC. Rapid prototyping available, CNC Plasma cutting, 3D printing and Laser engraving.

[pullstart]

Decent points, yes I was planning on a Latest Rage 6" wider warrior beam with 10" shock towers. So with that said, I guess why skimp on steering... I guess when the time comes that I set up my front end (hopefully sooner than later!) I'll make a phone call to see which option is the best for me.

[cbeck]

Make sure you cycle the front once you choose which way you are going. With 8" shocks my tie rods are getting close to the top and bottom tubes.

[pullstart]

would a longer rack and shorter tie rods remedy that problem, or should frame work and clearancing be done to be right?

[cbeck]

You won't know if it is a problem until you get parts and mock them up. I would have to cross that bridge when I got there, I'm no expert, Just a glutton for punishment.

[dustymojave]

For a VW beam, the tie rods really SHOULD mount to the center of the rack , Longer rack suggests you are thinking attaching the tie rods to the ends of the rack like in a car with a-arm or McPherson strut suspension. There are always guys who claim to get good results from an end mount rack, but I've never seen it in person.

When you have all the parts, you need to "cycle" the suspension and steering through their travel to ensure that everything works right BEFORE things get final welded in place. Failure to do this or failure to get things right is likely to result in things going bump in the night and day.
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Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[pullstart]

Thanks again fellas! I landed a quick water heater install today that got me a few hundo closer to my purchase!

[madmike]

Hey Kevin, ther's a VW swap meet coming up Oct. 2nd 25 miles south of you,,
131 dragstrip "Fall Bug Run" Look me up and I'll steer ya in the right direction,lol,, No snow this season,,, up here I hope
cheeers,madmike
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'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works"

[pullstart]

Oh boy that sounds like a great time madmike! Seems like I heard Mrs. Pullstart talking about plans on the 2nd, but maybe we'll be able to sneak in a ride!

I ordered my off-road spindles, an air filter outerwear and a link pin kit today because the front end could benefit from those upgrades right now and they'll still be useful when the rest of the fun parts are ordered up. We're planning a trip to Silver Lake on the 9th along with another 4 seater, a jeep or two and oh probably my 10.5:1 raptor too. It's been 8 years since the quad has run the sand, way too long!

[pullstart]

Well my Appletree order showed up today (1 day shipping for free in MI rocks!)

It made me investigate a bit to realize that the HD spindles are already on the buggy, but the driver's side spindle is bent up too. I guess whatever hit that corner took was a doozie to get the spindle and shock together. So much for the PO's wife just driving it to work and the occasional trip to the dunes, eh? I'm glad that I found that, so I can get it all fixed up before we put it through any more wringers. I'm hoping that the longer arms once I get those ordered will reduce stress on some of the working parts with longer travel allowing more time to soak up hard hits.

I picked up a good sized stick just right the other day to shear the left side brake hose off (just in the driveway luckily!) and for the life of me I couldn't get the CNC master cylinder to prime some pressure once I replaced the hose, so I have a new m/c cup from NAPA and I'll try bleeding the lines now along with setting some time aside to get the front end all tightened up with some new parts.

[dustymojave]

Looking at the pics up top ...

NOPE!

Pretty sure those are stock VW linkpin spindles on the car. The most noticeable part of the difference in the "offroad" spindles would be the beefier steering arm. Beefier offroad links and HD Silicon-bronze kingpin and linkpin bushings should be used with the beefier spindles.

The left spindle looks bent as it is. HUGE toe-out suggests she hit something fairly solid in those jaunts to work. You should check the trailing arms to see if they're bent while you're at it. Check the pitman arm and steering box for damage too.

"Just driven to church on Sundays" ...

[pullstart]

I think the toe out is a figment of picturemaginations, the wheel's just turned on the trailer and we're at about 1/16" to in according to toe plates.

Thanks for confirming that my spindles are stock, the HD kit I got I suppose will be a big upgrade then. The trailing arms will eventually be replaced, I'm hoping by spring I'll have the warrior beam with the 2.25 or 2.5 x1 and 3x3 arms out back.

There is no cutting brake, just a 3/4" bore M/C with a tee right off the outlet for the brake pressure switch and then the line out back. I replaced the cup in the m/c yesterday and felt like I was getting somewhere, then having my skilled hired hands helping me (6 and 8 year old daughters) I somehow lost the pressure again. I bled the m/c first by 1 pump / hold / cracking the line at the tee (repeat) and also at the pressure switch... then moving to the back bleeding the rr then the lr. my first good bleed on the rear, I lost pedal again. Is there a stroke limit in the CNC m/c that I might be loosing pressure internally? I've been around automotive my whole life and brake jobs are the first you really learn how to do, I can do drums, discs, differential proportioning valves... I don't get how such a simple system can stump me unless there's a pressure issue or scavenging going on in the m/c itself...?

[pullstart]

I have brakes! I've got the rear end about 2' off the ground with the bleeders cracked for the overnight to help get any air pockets out before I finish bleeding but at least I was able to go around the block for a quick cruise.

[pullstart]

Well that did the trick to get air out! So, I ended up tearing the CNC m/c apart again, I had a perfect sized wire brush on my drill press to polish the inside of the cylinder and the piston, then I sprayed all the hard parts with brake clean then soaked everything in a warm water/vinegar solution to get any oils or chemicals off, dried it all out and reassembled again, then bled the m/c side of the rail with the front end off the ground with my cherry picker. After I achieved no air bleeding out, that's when I lifted the rear end off the ground and let it sit all night with the bleeders cracked open. This morning, I shut them both, then attached a long 1" strap to the pedal, then around the top beam and back to the rear wheels so I could slowly apply pressure and crack the bleeders at the same time. After doing both sides a few times, I've got about 1.5" of pedal travel to complete stop and I'm confident that is good enough to call good. I'm glad the car is light enough to be able to use the cherry picker for extreme inclines for air movement assist.

[pullstart]

I still haven't decided on the front, but I've placed an order for the 3x3 full kit from Appletree along with some other little goodies. I figure until the front is a bit higher, the rear might as well ride well and I just won't crank the torsions until the front comes in.

[HeidelbergJohn4.0]

back to the original post, there are weld in avis adjusters for the aluminum beams

http://www.mooreparts.com/avis-weld-on-adjuster-fo...DQodVPMLGQ

That said, for a trail buggy, I totally agree a steel beam is much less likely to be damaged.
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71 LWB Manx style dunebuggy
71 Beetle
71 Volksrod
Machette Speedster
2012 Passat TDI SE (sadly sitting in a buyback parking lot somewhere waiting for it's heart to be ripped out.)

[pullstart]

great to know on the aluminum beam weld on adjusters!

I will however move to steel before next trail riding season and I'm pretty sure what I'll go with, just haven't pulled the trigger on the purchase yet.

The rear 3x3 kit came this week and looks so much beefier than the stock trailing arms, it's not even funny! 1 outer stub axle and the CV boots are on backorder, or shipping separate then I'll have everything needed to start assembly... other than a warm garage. I'm thinking I should get a coat of primer on the arms for the time being, so they don't rust to pieces before I get them on the car.

[pullstart]

So I started cleaning out a spot in the garage last night, I've never had a vehicle small enough to work on INSIDE! As soon as I get the trash pile cleaned out of there, the buggy will have a residency inside for the winter instead of under a tarp. Can't wait to start on the 3x3 kit!

Update, the car's inside. Last trip out, after a while riding in some mud and cold, I had to jump it to get started. Today I found that I have 0 volts coming from the alternator and about 10.5 volts at the battery. I just replaced it in August or so, I'm surprised the Napa alt. is already crapped out.