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Hikelite
Samba Member
Joined: August 31, 2012
Posts: 557
Location: Colville, WA
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 Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:59 am Post subject: Re: Lifted Early Westy |
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| GTV wrote: |
Thanks guys!
It's frustrating because we just bought a home (garage!) this summer, and I don't have access to the tools I used to have before we moved to the PNW. So every minor speed bump becomes a real ordeal! I need to start concentrating on my garage a little more, get it a little more work friendly. |
Grats on the new house and place to work on your bus 
I'm going through that also. I'm still "setting up" my new shop. With a limited budget, it seems like the Bus project isn't moving. I have to keep reminding myself that I'm setting up the shop FOR the Bus. Now if I can just get the budget dept to understand that shop expenses are part of the bus budget. 
Tools, especially good ones, are expensive. 
The football trick definitely made that front end look better.
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GTV
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2004
Posts: 2084
Location: Si'ahl
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: Lifted Early Westy |
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Balancing expenses between shop upgrades and bus upgrades is tough! Once I get this thing moving again I'll try to focus more on the shop.
So I need to invest in a spring plate compressor tool. Are they all created equally? I don't want junk tools that I'm going to hate using.
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC%2DC10%2D7047
I know the top hooks over the body mount bolt in a Beetle/Ghia application, how is it secured on a bay window?
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richparker
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011
Posts: 6986
Location: Durango, CO
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: Lifted Early Westy |
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I had no idea that tool was so inexpensive, I probably would have bought one. I did this job twice on my bus because I solely listened to a YouTube video and didn't read about it in the Bentley.
I put the bus on jack stands. After removing the hub body from the plate I used my floor jack to jack up the spring off the stop. Maybe not the correct way but it worked well for me.
There are a couple of good videos on YouTube but they are not 100% correct. However I do feel they still contain some good info.
Oh yea, a 5 gallon bucket turned upside down makes a great table to rest the hub body on while you work on the spring plate. This way you do not have to remove the soft break line.
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20279
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: Lifted Early Westy |
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Build your own. Or better yet, use a floor jack under the plate, and a chain wrapped to the top shock mount to compress as needed. Just be careful and all will be well.
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GTV
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2004
Posts: 2084
Location: Si'ahl
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:13 pm Post subject: Re: Lifted Early Westy |
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Thanks for the tips!
| cdennisg wrote: |
| Or better yet, use a floor jack under the plate, and a chain wrapped to the top shock mount to compress as needed. Just be careful and all will be well. |
Seriously?? I did it that way building a Beetle chassis years ago, I succeeded but it was sketchy as hell!
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20279
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: Lifted Early Westy |
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| GTV wrote: |
Thanks for the tips!
| cdennisg wrote: |
| Or better yet, use a floor jack under the plate, and a chain wrapped to the top shock mount to compress as needed. Just be careful and all will be well. |
Seriously?? I did it that way building a Beetle chassis years ago, I succeeded but it was sketchy as hell! |
It needn't be sketchy, you just need to be careful. Even with a slightly lifted bus, you probably will just barely need to ad tension to the spring plate to lift it over the stop. Beetles need much more tension, hence the need for the tool.
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16886
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:54 pm Post subject: Re: Lifted Early Westy |
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guys, the rear spring plates are like the front torsion arms. they don't come down with a earth shattering whack. wiggle it out of the stop on the torsion housing. it drops a whopping 3/4 of an inch at most.
to install, push it in as far as it will go. jack it up, rubber mallet and you're done. yes, it is under tension, but it's not as evil as people make it out to be.
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20279
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:00 pm Post subject: Re: Lifted Early Westy |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
guys, the rear spring plates are like the front torsion arms. they don't come down with a earth shattering whack. wiggle it out of the stop on the torsion housing. it drops a whopping 3/4 of an inch at most.
to install, push it in as far as it will go. jack it up, rubber mallet and you're done. yes, it is under tension, but it's not as evil as people make it out to be. |
His bus is lifted. Much more preload than stock settings. When reassembling a stock spring plate setup, I can usually lift it in place with my hands, then tap it home with a rubber mallet.
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Last edited by cdennisg on Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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richparker
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2011
Posts: 6986
Location: Durango, CO
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:08 pm Post subject: Re: Lifted Early Westy |
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Using the floor jack to lift the spring plates is pretty easy and not really that sketchy, so I thought. When reassembling I apply a little tendon to the plate with the jack then put the cover on and thread the four bolts in by hand. Once it's kinda snug I jack the plate up past the stop and screw the bolts in the rest of the way which pushes the plate inbetween the stops.
There are many ways to skin this cat.
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cdennisg
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
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Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:13 pm Post subject: Re: Lifted Early Westy |
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| richparker wrote: |
There are many ways to skin this cat. |
Absolutely.
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GTV
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2004
Posts: 2084
Location: Si'ahl
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:44 pm Post subject: Re: Lifted Early Westy |
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| cdennisg wrote: |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
guys, the rear spring plates are like the front torsion arms. they don't come down with a earth shattering whack. wiggle it out of the stop on the torsion housing. it drops a whopping 3/4 of an inch at most.
to install, push it in as far as it will go. jack it up, rubber mallet and you're done. yes, it is under tension, but it's not as evil as people make it out to be. |
His bus is lifted. Much more preload than stock settings. When reassembling a stock spring plate setup, I can usually lift it in place with my hands, then tap it home with a rubber mallet. |
It is lifted, but most of the lift is coming from the horseshoe plates (I still need to crawl under there and measure those). The spring plates were also reindexed by the PO for additional lift, but I'm not sure by how much. The rear end needs to come down roughly 1 1/2" to be level with the front, which should take quite a bit of angle out of the CV's, which is great.
I'll skip the tool, I guess I'll just start taking stuff apart and see what happens  Now to figure out what combination of splines gives me the needed 1 1/2"...
Thanks for the help everybody. It's may be a wait before this happens, my day off needs to align with the weather as this big girl does not fit in my garage, and the rainy season has just begun here.
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GTV
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Joined: March 27, 2004
Posts: 2084
Location: Si'ahl
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:53 pm Post subject: Re: Lifted Early Westy |
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Could someone measure the distance from the axle/center of the hubcap to the lip of the fender on a stock height bus? That way I'll know how much it has been lifted from the plates and how much is from the torsion bars.
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cdennisg
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Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20279
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:06 pm Post subject: Re: Lifted Early Westy |
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| GTV wrote: |
| Could someone measure the distance from the axle/center of the hubcap to the lip of the fender on a stock height bus? That way I'll know how much it has been lifted from the plates and how much is from the torsion bars. |
I just went out and measured my stock 68 single cab that sits at a nice, level, stock ride height. The center of the hubcap to the bottom edge of the wheel well lip is almost exactly 12".
If you want to get your spring plate index back to near stock, when you are reassembling it set up the index so that right before you need to lift the spring plate onto the bottom stop you will need to lift it about 1/4" or so into place. That is with all the snubbers in place and things all pushed together to remove all of the slack in the system. That will be real close to stock height once everything is all bolted up.
Remember though, this isn't an exact science, as the protractor weilding naysayers here will have you believe. You can measure all the angles you want, and still have things sit crooked when everything is back on the ground. Sometimes it takes a couple of tries to get it just right.
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GTV
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2004
Posts: 2084
Location: Si'ahl
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| Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:32 am Post subject: Re: Lifted Early Westy |
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Thanks for that!
I've got about 15 3/4" (slightly less than I've been guessing)
Horseshoe plates are 2 1/2"
Roughly 1 1/4" torsion bar lift, which is pretty close to what I need to eliminate.
I've got about 3/16" between the spring plate and the lower stop- very little downward suspension travel. The other 69 I've got here has no engine or trans in it and it has slightly more distance from the plate to the stop.
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GTV
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2004
Posts: 2084
Location: Si'ahl
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: Lifted Early Westy |
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While I'm not new to this the last time I adjusted torsions on a bus it was my buddy's 61 SC and it was getting lowered. Nearly 10 years ago. I adjusted it many times before it was sitting where we wanted it. As I remember, turning the inner and outer bars opposite directions resulted in a height change of about 3/16-1/4". Is it the same for an early bay?
Do early bays have the same number of splines as a split?
From what I've seen it is 44/48, which is inner/outer?
Roughly how much change in height does one click on the inner or outer splines give?
Thanks
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cdennisg
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Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 20279
Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:51 pm Post subject: Re: Lifted Early Westy |
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Yes, it will be about 3/16" change in height with each set of inner/outer spline movements. I have no idea if split and bay buses use the same spline count, but I do know that the torsion bars themselves are different.
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GTV
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Joined: March 27, 2004
Posts: 2084
Location: Si'ahl
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: Lifted Early Westy |
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| cdennisg wrote: |
| Yes, it will be about 3/16" change in height with each set of inner/outer spline movements. I have no idea if split and bay buses use the same spline count, but I do know that the torsion bars themselves are different. |
Ok, I made some more accurate height measurements. I measured from the center of the wheels to the bottom of the rain gutters.
On the right side the rear is 1 3/16" higher than the front.
On the left side the rear is 1 7/8" higher than the front
The left rear is about 5/16" higher than the right rear (I'm guessing the PO overcompensated on the drivers side last time around).
My goal is to even it out as much as possible from side to side, and lower the rear so it is closer to the height of the front. A little bit higher in the rear is preferred (rather than lower), so I will error in that direction.
I repeatedly made small adjustments on the 61 SC (one inner, one outer), so I'm comfortable with that method. I'll go 4 up and 4 down on the passenger, and 5 up and 5 down on the drivers. Mathematically that should get the bus pretty close to my goal, with some room left for error. I'll take measurements afterwards as well, stay tuned.
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cdennisg
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Joined: November 02, 2004
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Location: Sandpoint, ID
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| Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: Lifted Early Westy |
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You are on the right track!
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GTV
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2004
Posts: 2084
Location: Si'ahl
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:17 pm Post subject: Re: Lifted Early Westy |
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So I just did a 3700 mile/10 day road trip back to AZ to retrieve some random junk I left there when I moved up here. I took the scenic route, also saw some friends and family, and did some National Parking (froze my ass off camping in Arches). At the last minute I threw the front seat frames from the Westy in my truck to have my buddy in AZ weld up the busted springs (ridiculous, I know, but I had the space).
I'm a pansy and it's been either too damn cold or too damn wet outside to mess with the spring plates (Westy doesn't fit in the garage), so I need to make a little progress indoors.
You know those high density foam pads that go on the front backrest frames under the upholstery? I only have one and it's pretty wasted. Does anyone make these or have a used pair they wouldn't mind selling?
Exploded view.
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GTV
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Joined: March 27, 2004
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Location: Si'ahl
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| Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: Lifted Early Westy |
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While in AZ I also picked up an extra bus 15" wheel I found about 18 months ago. It's a little dinged up, but as they say, good enough for the spare. Between writing that last post and now I was inspired to knock out the rivets, clean it up, and drop it off at Les Schwab for powdercoat. I think I'll go ahead and use my $70 from General Tire to order up a 205/75 now, the biggest that I *think* will fit in the spare tire well.
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