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hometurbine Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2014 Posts: 157 Location: Cincinnati
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BayCreamPuff Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2015 Posts: 769 Location: Oakland, CA
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Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:44 am Post subject: Re: More on door seals... |
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I just finished my driver's side door with the kit from Bus Depot. Haven't installed the main door seal yet, but everything else was great. Except one thing... They sent me a really stiff off brand driver's side vent wing seal. The passenger side was the correct soft Brazilian VW one.
He wanted me to ship mine back and pay the cost of shipping to get the correct one from them. Made a personal decision to not support BD in the future if possible and picked up the correct one from a local shop.
Bottom floppy one is correct
Bottom one with VW logo is correct
Here it is installed
_________________ Cream Puff
'79 CA Stock FI Deluxe Campmobile
Earl Grey
'87 GoWesty 2.2 Westfalia
Marsha Mellow
'00 Eurovan VR6 Full Camper |
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airschooled Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012 Posts: 12721 Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:11 am Post subject: Re: More on door seals... |
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I recently ripped out most of my CIP1 kit I installed 5 years ago.
I can't find pictures at the moment, but the "felt" channels turned from black to white even though I was almost always parked in a garage. The felts themselves turned to gummy rubber and disintegrated when removed and replaced with the WW felts.
Robbie
EDIT: The inner scraper is also shaped wrong, and doesn't have the trailing curve that the OG scrapers (and WW scrapers) have. It looks tacky but seals well enough, I guess. _________________ Learn how your vintage VW works. And why it doesn't!
One-on-one tech help for your Volkswagen:
www.airschooled.com
Last edited by airschooled on Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:13 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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mark d Samba Member
Joined: February 06, 2013 Posts: 219 Location: Costa Rica
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Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:25 am Post subject: Re: More on door seals... |
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glad you started this thread. i am at this point also. been looking at the bus depot german ones. interested to see what the more knowledgeable say. _________________ 1972ish westfalia
"what good are tractors without violins ?" jose figueres |
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Hikelite Samba Member
Joined: August 31, 2012 Posts: 557 Location: Colville, WA
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Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:36 am Post subject: Re: More on door seals... |
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BayCreamPuff, do you know what brand your local shop sold you?
Do we just need to look for the spongy Brazilian rubber for that part?
I always thought the non-spongy rubber was higher quality, ie would last longer. Is this not the case?
I'll be ordering some door rubber soon too, so I'm interested in this topic a LOT _________________ ~Kevin
My 1968 Campmobile |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:18 am Post subject: Re: More on door seals... |
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There was one guru for seals, and only one who got it right 99% of the time based on what level of fit you wanted. This question comes up so often there should be a sticky that reads, "What seal do I buy."
Here is what was told to me by that guru in 2014 on your behalf:
Quote: |
Hi Steve,
Mid America do have the German seals but you need to make sure that you specify OEM quality when two qualities are offered.
My 1965 Mendeola Bug needed German Cal look Seals, I purchased these from Mid America, but I had most of the rubber from Wolfsburg West because at this time Mid America stocks of OEM seals are low.
For Bay window Buses Mid America do have good seals, so long as you specify OEM.
For Split Window Bus I would use Wolfsburg West or WCM.
Hope this helps |
_________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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BayCreamPuff Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2015 Posts: 769 Location: Oakland, CA
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Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 11:37 am Post subject: Re: More on door seals... |
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Hikelite wrote: |
BayCreamPuff, do you know what brand your local shop sold you?
Do we just need to look for the spongy Brazilian rubber for that part?
I always thought the non-spongy rubber was higher quality, ie would last longer. Is this not the case?
I'll be ordering some door rubber soon too, so I'm interested in this topic a LOT |
This rubber is not spongy at all. The only spongy one that came with the BD kit is the outer door seal.
The local shop sold me the same one that BD had given be for the passenger side.
_________________ Cream Puff
'79 CA Stock FI Deluxe Campmobile
Earl Grey
'87 GoWesty 2.2 Westfalia
Marsha Mellow
'00 Eurovan VR6 Full Camper |
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hometurbine Samba Member
Joined: November 30, 2014 Posts: 157 Location: Cincinnati
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Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: More on door seals... |
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I'm not sure we are comparing apples to apples. I was referring to the BD kit with "german seals" that should have the thick/dense rubber with the molded corner.
There is another kit with Brazilian OEM rubber that is softer, but reportedly not as good (it's p/n 82000 not 82000GR). I believe that is what BayCreamPuff is referring to.
I would like this to become a sticky if we get enough input for recommendations.
I would like to hear if anyone has input on the Just Kampers kit too.
Thanks
Bill |
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BayCreamPuff Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2015 Posts: 769 Location: Oakland, CA
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Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 3:11 pm Post subject: Re: More on door seals... |
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This was from the BD Kit with german upgrade. The most expensive one hey have. _________________ Cream Puff
'79 CA Stock FI Deluxe Campmobile
Earl Grey
'87 GoWesty 2.2 Westfalia
Marsha Mellow
'00 Eurovan VR6 Full Camper |
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Ride_On Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015 Posts: 385 Location: Ottawa, Canada
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Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:23 pm Post subject: Re: More on door seals... |
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Also following with interest! Time for seal replacement and some rust clean-up.
Thanks! _________________ 1977 Westfalia 2.0 FI Skills EJ25 w SubaruGears 5sp
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=687254
2018 Golf Sportwagen 4MO DSG (Dieselgated 2013 Golf Wagon TDI DSG) |
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Lil Lulu Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2007 Posts: 1745 Location: Mouth of the Columbia
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Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 5:58 am Post subject: Re: More on door seals... |
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I have done 2 buses now with the seals from WCM. All doors no windows.
Satisfied. _________________ '65 Beetle "Lil' Lulu"- Ruby Red
1600 stock from '71 bus
'72 Deluxe - Niagara Blue w/pastelwiess Camper Special 2L dual 40 Webers 002
'74 Hightop Weekender "Dixie" 1800 34 Del singles |
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lolight70 Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2013 Posts: 160 Location: West Australia
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Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:24 am Post subject: Re: More on door seals... |
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Seals made by vewib(german) are meant to be the best
They can be bought from the UK
Dont know who sells them in the US |
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pantone149 Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004 Posts: 1018 Location: Mt. Shasta
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Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 12:42 pm Post subject: Re: More on door seals... |
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I recently replaced all door and window seals with West Coast Metric stuff. I did everything from front to rear. Some pieces were excellent and others very good. The cab door seals were excellent and replaced a set that I got from another vendor that only lasted a few years before cracking and not looking real pretty. Sliding door seal was excellent. Rear hatch seal the same. The weakest parts were the cab vent window pieces and even those were very good. Unfortunately the rubber has only been in place a few months so I cannot give a long-term review. Gimme a few years for that. |
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chabanais Samba Member
Joined: July 27, 2002 Posts: 4866
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Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: More on door seals... |
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I used Bus Depot. The secret is are the top corners square or not? If not, it's junk. _________________ "I spud therefore I yam." |
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Busdepot Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2004 Posts: 1309
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Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: More on door seals... |
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I can shed some light on some of these comments...
1) Both our 82000/82001 and our 82000GR/82001GR front door seal kits come with the same seals other than the seal around the door itself. Virtually all of them are OEM Volkswagen seals. Some are German, the rest from VW/Brazil. It is impossible to buy a door seal kit that is 100% German made because some of the seals haven't been German made for over a decade. (This does not stop some retailers from claiming their seals are German made.) Generally we source OEM German when possible, OEM VW/Brazil as a second choice, and aftermarket as a last resort. For the most part the OEM VW/Brazil product is very good. Much of it is even made on the old German tooling and molds. There are some exceptions, but even the worst of the OEM/Brazil seals tend to be better than aftermarket.
2) The 82000 (driver side) and 82001 (passenger) kits come with OEM VW/Brazil door seals (around the door itself). These are the same ones that came off of the assembly line on Brazilian Buses and the quality is good (infinitely better than aftermarket seals), but they do not have fully molded corners so the fit is not as good as on the German ones. The 82000GR and 82001GR kits substitute German made door seals with fully molded corners for $60 more per side.
3) There is not a huge difference in the pliability between the OEM Brazilian and German door seals, it's more a matter of fit. Both may make your door hard to close when you install them (the German one less so due to the more precise fit). This is partially because the seal is new whereas your old one has had a door slammed on it a million times. And/or it may be because you have to readjust your striker. The first issue will slowly resolve itself over time.
4) There can be more than one OEM supplier of a seal. If you look closely at the two vent wing seals that BayCreamPuff pictured, you'll see that the bottom one has a VW/Audi logo and the other has an obscured spot where the logo should be. Both are OEM seals. Most OEM suppliers are prohibited from shipping products containing the VW logo to anyone except the actual VW dealer network. Some take their chances and leave the logo there anyway, while others modify the mold to obscure the logo (usually after their OE contract expires so they have no need for the logo anymore). The supplier of the top seal in the picture did just that. The fact that there was a logo to obscure in the first place indicates that the seal was made on the original VW molds and tooling. The fact that one seal was more pliable than the other is a function of the rubber compound that was used. This can vary from one OEM supplier to another. Both would have done a good job once installed but the more pliable one might be easier to install. Currently we have the more pliable ones. A while back the bottom supplier didn't have any stock so we bought from the other supplier. Sourcing these OE seals is a constant game of whack-a-mole. At any given time, if there are three OE suppliers still making a seal it's a safe bet that two of them won't have any to deliver, and the third one will short-ship my order and deliver it a month late. On the other hand there is never any shortage of cheap aftermarket crap, which is why it's so prevalent in the marketplace.
5. Vewib is German based VW parts wholesaler, not a factory per se. Like us they use a wide variety of sourcing, not all of it German. Many of our seals (and other parts for that matter) come from the same factories they use.
Any other questions, feel free to ask. _________________ - Ron Salmon
The Bus Depot
www.busdepot.com
Last edited by Busdepot on Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mark d Samba Member
Joined: February 06, 2013 Posts: 219 Location: Costa Rica
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Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:13 pm Post subject: Re: More on door seals... |
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now that was educational, thks _________________ 1972ish westfalia
"what good are tractors without violins ?" jose figueres |
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Xevin Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014 Posts: 7624
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Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:44 pm Post subject: Re: More on door seals... |
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So exactly how many manufactures make Bay Window door and window seals?
And what countries produce them? My gut tells me one in Asia, one in Brazil, and one in Germany (maybe two if they had the orginal tooling). _________________ Keep on Busin'
67rustavenger wrote: |
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
Clatter wrote: |
Damn that Xevin... |
skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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Hikelite Samba Member
Joined: August 31, 2012 Posts: 557 Location: Colville, WA
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Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 8:23 am Post subject: Re: More on door seals... |
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Busdepot wrote: |
I can shed some light on some of these comments...
[snip]
Any other questions, feel free to ask. |
Thanks Ron!
That cleared up most of my questions. The only part of the story I don't understand was about the BayCreamPuff's issue with the wind wing rubber. You asked him to pay for shipping both ways to return one of them. What happened here? Were they different because you had to source them from different manufacturers, or did the wrong part get shipped? I could maybe understand your request if the first situation were the case, but even that would be a bit of a stretch. I have to say that I empathize with him. If I order rubber for both my doors, I would want them to match. If I ordered the same part number, or perhaps even a kit with both doors, for both doors, my expectation would be to receive the same rubber for both sides.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to call you out Ron. I respect you and appreciate how much you do to help the VW community keep our vehicles on the road. Your posts here are very helpful, and I'm sure I will still order parts from you. This story just seems to be counter to my impression of how you run your business. _________________ ~Kevin
My 1968 Campmobile |
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BayCreamPuff Samba Member
Joined: August 10, 2015 Posts: 769 Location: Oakland, CA
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Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 9:21 am Post subject: Re: More on door seals... |
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Hikelite wrote: |
I have to say that I empathize with him. If I order rubber for both my doors, I would want them to match. If I ordered the same part number, or perhaps even a kit with both doors, for both doors, my expectation would be to receive the same rubber for both sides. |
Having them match was important to me. Not just aesthetically, but the two rubbers seemed different enough that they would wear at very different rates.
I've ordered many great, hard to find products from Bus Depot and definitely appreciate that they exist. Living on the west coast makes them a little less appealing. Too much opportunity for damaged products, or in the case a mismatched part. And if they're not willing to eat the cost of making it right, then that has to be factored into my purchasing decisions.
I should have just stayed living in Southeastern, PA, then I wouldn't have these issues _________________ Cream Puff
'79 CA Stock FI Deluxe Campmobile
Earl Grey
'87 GoWesty 2.2 Westfalia
Marsha Mellow
'00 Eurovan VR6 Full Camper |
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Busdepot Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2004 Posts: 1309
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Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:54 am Post subject: Re: More on door seals... |
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Hikelite wrote: |
That cleared up most of my questions. The only part of the story I don't understand was about the BayCreamPuff's issue with the wind wing rubber. You asked him to pay for shipping both ways to return one of them. What happened here? Were they different because you had to source them from different manufacturers, or did the wrong part get shipped? I could maybe understand your request if the first situation were the case, but even that would be a bit of a stretch. I have to say that I empathize with him. If I order rubber for both my doors, I would want them to match. If I ordered the same part number, or perhaps even a kit with both doors, for both doors, my expectation would be to receive the same rubber for both sides.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to call you out Ron. I respect you and appreciate how much you do to help the VW community keep our vehicles on the road. Your posts here are very helpful, and I'm sure I will still order parts from you. This story just seems to be counter to my impression of how you run your business. |
I was not the one who handled BayCreamPuff's issue. But the reason the rep didn't offer to cover shipping is that BayCreamPuff waited nearly a year to request an exchange. Given that the return period is 30 days, he was way past any return policy at all. The person who handled his inquiry decided to drastically extend the exchange policy, but not to cover shipping as well. (Other retailers would have told him to pound sand. Good luck getting Amazon to take something back at all 8 or 9 months after you bought it, let alone cover shipping both ways.) I am sure that if the request had come within a month or even two months of purchase, the rep would have at least offered to cover shipping one way.
As for the general rule, we don't generally ship different brands of seals for left and right unless availability necessitates it. At the time of BayCreamPuff's original order, that was all that was available. Given that the seals were nearly identical (both OEM but a difference in the rubber pliability) they were shipped. We didn't get other complaints, so it would seem most people concurred that the difference was fairly insignificant. Had the difference been larger (a different profile, color, etc.) one side or the other would have been backordered until a suitable match was available. _________________ - Ron Salmon
The Bus Depot
www.busdepot.com |
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