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new rebuild no oill pressure HELP!!
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porkchop-rob
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:50 am    Post subject: Re: new rebuild no oill pressure HELP!! Reply with quote

I would pull the pump cover and double check it. Maybe post a pic of the pump.

Are you 100% sure that the case isn't plugged at the pump outlet?
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jason
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 11:17 am    Post subject: Re: new rebuild no oill pressure HELP!! Reply with quote

If you have the cover off, put a wire or something down the oil galley to see if it is open to the plug. Also how long is your plug, maybe it's plugging the passage.
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mark tucker
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:33 pm    Post subject: Re: new rebuild no oill pressure HELP!! Reply with quote

yes make sure the case does not have a plug in it where the oil pump outlet pumps oil through. you should ba able to pull the top plug(std fullflow location and see when you push a stiff clean wire up that gally from the oil pump. if you have a in/out pump it will not work unless you have the inout cover with a loop going from the in to the out. or get a std 30 mm pump and install it. also make sure the filer addaptor is plumbed corectly. the oil go's in the side port so the oil flows through the outer holes in the filter. the center pipe in the filter is the filter out to the engine bearings. I usualy use a FL1A motorcraft filter. but there are many that fit it.dodge,many ford,some suzuki and many others. good luck and always prime with sparking bolts on the bench. and your rearend on the floor Shocked
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marlin1893
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:22 pm    Post subject: Re: new rebuild no oill pressure HELP!! Reply with quote

Thanks guys I pulled the pulley end (rear) oil piston and spring it was hung up had to use compressed air to get it out. Lightly cleaned bore with 320 wet/dry and oil then flushed from top with cleaner. Installed non grooved piston and standard spring it slides in and out very nice now. might have to ck the front piston also. Pulled both of the screw in plugs so I could see the piston and look down the long oil gallery that feeds the lifters (?) no blockage and there for sure is no plug in the pump housing ran a vacuum hose up thru it and down thru pickup both are clear. Removed filter and cranked for about 20 sec no oil. Then I put a 90 off the screw in plug at the top of oil pump port to ck pump output and got about 3 oz with a 7 sec crank so the pump is putting out now. Will try another longer crank with everything hooked up to see if gauge reads. BTW I ckd gauge by my air hose and it moved up to 80 psi so I don't think its the gauge. I will let you all know what happens.
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Starbucket
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:42 pm    Post subject: Re: new rebuild no oill pressure HELP!! Reply with quote

Check the oil filter adapter by removing the outlet hose and crank the motor to see if oil is coming out there. Fill the filter with oil before installing to cut down on cranking time.
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marlin1893
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:19 pm    Post subject: Re: new rebuild no oill pressure HELP!! Reply with quote

I am having trouble getting the OP piston at flywheel side out so I can polish the bore. When I first tried to start I filled the filter and cooler and as much of the lines as possible. That's why I was so puzzled by no oil pressure. Will get that piston out somehow as I think they were both not moving and might be my problem?
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modok
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 5:07 pm    Post subject: Re: new rebuild no oill pressure HELP!! Reply with quote

If you start the engine, or feed air into the oil galleys, I think the piston will come out Wink
can also take an old valve guide or a chunk of anything turned down to 12mm with a taper on the end and you can jam that into the bottom of the piston and get a fair hold on it.
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marlin1893
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 5:36 pm    Post subject: Re: new rebuild no oill pressure HELP!! Reply with quote

Thanks Glen I tried air pressure and no way was I going to start it up without oil pressure. Finally was able to run a 1/4-20 NPT tap into the piston and pry it out. Cleaned up the bore so it slides nice and easy still no oil pressure. Will think about building a PVC pressure unit to make sure mains and rods are lubed and try to start it to see if it builds pressure. Running out of ideas without splitting the case. Getting to damn old for this.
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modok
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:05 pm    Post subject: Re: new rebuild no oill pressure HELP!! Reply with quote

I think you can run any engine 30 seconds with no oil flow and be ok, assuming everything inside is generally oily. But if you want to be careful that's fine, it is good to be careful rather than brave. I'd start it up and see what it's got, but if it won't budge a gauge cranking then maybe somethings wrong anyway, I don't know what's normal, I never check cranking pressure.

I check the engagement of the pump to the cam by turning the gear 90degrees (so it doesn't line up with the slot), and seeing how far it sticks out. Quite simple but for some reason nobody thinks of it. A few months ago we had a guy ruin his rebuilt TDI engine because the pump wasn't fully engaged to the drive, silly thing, he didn't stop at 30 seconds.

If the clearances of the pump are reasonably good, and it's engaged to the cam, then it should pump oil. Not much else can be checked from outside, you might have to go in and see where the "leak" is, or who knows what. One time, there was a shop rag stuck in the pickup tube, how bout that! You never know with these things.

Since you have the filter connected to where the oil cooler was, then you can't go wrong. Even if that was plugged it would still work and develop pressure, it would just bypass through the rear oil valve direct the main galley.
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marlin1893
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 6:51 pm    Post subject: Re: new rebuild no oill pressure HELP!! Reply with quote

Thanks Glen I was going to bypass the filter and cooler tomorrow but you just answered my question. The pump engages fine I always checked that first but it's been 30 yrs since I built my 1835. That engine ran fantastic for 7 yrs then I sold the buggy still running great. This will pump a fair amount of oil out the plug hole at the top of the passage that you hook up as a return when you go full flow. But when it's closed up then all I get is a dribble out of the OP sending hole and I thought it would squirt out there ? I am thinking there must be an internal leak bleeding off pressure but have no idea where that would be. Only other idea I have is the pickup tube is leaking. I know I for got to seal it when it was installed. This one has me stumped I guess I need to stick to building my Camaro engines LOL
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:28 pm    Post subject: Re: new rebuild no oill pressure HELP!! Reply with quote

In first post you stated oil barely dribbled out oil pressure port....Think you problem is blocked passage or bad pump, cam engagement or pickup tube...All talk about adapters and oil coolers and filters are after the problem....

Is pickup tube still connected?....Extra deep sump?...

Jack up front of car as high as you can to force oil towards pump (sort of try to flood it)..

Other question is oil pump actually being turned by cam (wrong pump for cam type)....

Is plug here in too deep and blocking passage...

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Dale..
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Last edited by Dale M. on Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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marlin1893
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:38 pm    Post subject: Re: new rebuild no oill pressure HELP!! Reply with quote

Yes the pump is working and its a stock sump. I don't think the pickup tube can fall out as it has a bolt holding it in place. But it might develop a leak where it attaches to the block? Has anyone ever heard of that. I screwed up and didn't check the fit, I was going to put loctite sealer on it to make sure but forgot to. It will pump oil just not enough so I may have to get a pump puller and change it out. I checked the clearance between cover and gears and it was aprox .002 is that too much ? If so would I have to machine the pump housing down to tighten up the clearance ?
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Dale M.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:43 pm    Post subject: Re: new rebuild no oill pressure HELP!! Reply with quote

Lack of volume can be bad pump (doubtful) or blockage in passage or pump is sucking air, or never really picked up good prime...

Dale
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modok
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:49 pm    Post subject: Re: new rebuild no oill pressure HELP!! Reply with quote

.002 clearance thrust clearance on the gears is quite good.
Many are running down the road at .005+ becase they use a thick gakset and don't know better, but I prefer to keep it a lot tighter than that.

Some combos of case and oil pump you can have a leak, meaning the hole in the pump not lining up with the hole in the case, but this only seems to occur with replacement cases, not OE ones.
I don't think a leak at the pickup tube would cause your problem, but a air leak right next to the pump could do it.
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marlin1893
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:01 pm    Post subject: Re: new rebuild no oill pressure HELP!! Reply with quote

When I put the pump in it went in very stiff had to tap it in with my plastic hammer. How would I see or find a leak between the case and pump. I'm planning on pulling the pump tomorrow. The only other pump I have is a cast iron one set up for bypass and my block isn't plugged so I guess I can't use that one.
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modok
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 8:56 pm    Post subject: Re: new rebuild no oill pressure HELP!! Reply with quote

Take the pump body and measure from the flange to the far end of the oil port, then compare that to the case.

If i remember right, it was recent made in brazil case?, the big inlet hole in the pump was overhanging into the case; big air leak.
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marlin1893
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:33 pm    Post subject: Re: new rebuild no oill pressure HELP!! Reply with quote

Thanks Glen great info, tomorrow might be a better day. I'm going to build a pre-oiler LOL and see what happens also.
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mark tucker
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 9:52 pm    Post subject: Re: new rebuild no oill pressure HELP!! Reply with quote

if the pistons are up all the way there not the issue. I wouldent sand the bores.I also would not put the non groved piston in. post a pic with the pump cover off.
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KROC
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:48 am    Post subject: Re: new rebuild no oill pressure HELP!! Reply with quote

modok wrote:
Take the pump body and measure from the flange to the far end of the oil port, then compare that to the case.

If i remember right, it was recent made in brazil case?, the big inlet hole in the pump was overhanging into the case; big air leak.


I'm with Glen on this one, Take a look at this picture, I found this upon disassembly of a friends engine that had oil pressure issues at start up. Very Happy

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


P.S. Oh and just for the record that Moly goop on the cam bearings was not put there by me.... Shocked


Last edited by KROC on Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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marlin1893
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 8:13 am    Post subject: Re: new rebuild no oill pressure HELP!! Reply with quote

Thanks all, I will be trying to find a pump puller or make on today so I can check the alignment of the pump ports. I will post tonight with what I find out
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