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Motor60
Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2014
Posts: 625
Location: SoCal
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 Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:21 am Post subject: Anybody else want to learn? |
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| Anybody in Orange County California wanna teach me how to build motors? |
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Dale M.
Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 20379
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:29 am Post subject: Re: Anybody else want to learn? |
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Learning to "build" motors takes years.. Learning to assemble a motor can be done by a couple of youtube videos (be ware lots of bad information on youtube)...
Dale
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“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:13 am Post subject: Re: Anybody else want to learn? |
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| Dale M. wrote: |
Learning to "build" motors takes years.. Learning to assemble a motor can be done by a couple of youtube videos (be ware lots of bad information on youtube)...
Dale |
say it aint so..bad info on youtube????like the guy that uses 1/3 length needels in his trans builds so he can have 2 rows of them..... or they guy grinding the axle tang down and spraying all the sparks&mettell into the trans he is building.......or the....oh never mind. come on buy Ill give you some pointers. |
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Mikedrevguy
Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2008
Posts: 2240
Location: Medford, OR
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 12:45 pm Post subject: Re: Anybody else want to learn? |
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how do you get to carnage hall?
you want a motor built? or you wan to build a motor?
be willing and able to make mistakes, fix the mistakes, learn from the mistakes.
learn the rules - then learn to recognize when you're breaking the rules. Learn to recognize the impact, effect of the mistakes.
then learn when it's okay and even advantageous to break the rules.
good luck and have fun.
m
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"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato
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cecil
Samba Member
Joined: February 23, 2005
Posts: 461
Location: Stockton, CA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:07 pm Post subject: Re: Anybody else want to learn? |
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Bug-Me-Video. Built two type 4 engines watching their video. 12,000 miles so far on the one I kept.
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I may not be that funny or athletic or good looking or smart or talented....I forgot where I was going with this
I have this wierd desease called "must tear everything up and put it back together when there's nothing wrong with it...Itus." |
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esde
Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007
Posts: 5969
Location: central rust belt
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: Anybody else want to learn? |
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Unfortunately, as with most things in life you don't really figure out what works well without also discovering what doesn't work. Sometimes the lessons are expensive
Really, one of the most important things is learning how to measure all of the parts (and affording all of the tools to measure with). If you can do this you will see what things are going to be too loose/ not fit/ etc. before it's too late. Read a bunch (or all) of the engine build threads and maybe learn from others mistakes, or follow a build that gets it right.
One of my favorites, Vince doesn't miss a thing on this
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=579257
Best would be if you could watch or help someone who's done a few, you're in Cali, I thought they even built engines at Right Aid?
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modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that. |
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Motor60
Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2014
Posts: 625
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 6:55 am Post subject: Re: Anybody else want to learn? |
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| I wanna learn the basics. Tearing one down, what needs to be cleaned, and reassemble/rebuild it. And then I can build off that. I would probably learn with a 1600 then build bigger motors with good parts. I can always ask what cam works with which rockers etc. I just wanna learn how to assemble it. Proper torques. Lining up cam gears. Sealants. Rocker geometry. Stuff I need to know to put it together. Rimco can balance it and do machine work for me. Someone else can assemble the heads and figure out my compression. It's a matter of finding someone who has the time and patience to teach. |
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Q-Dog
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2010
Posts: 8700
Location: Sunset, Louisiana
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:01 am Post subject: Re: Anybody else want to learn? |
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| Motor60 wrote: |
| I wanna learn the basics. Tearing one down, what needs to be cleaned, and reassemble/rebuild it. And then I can build off that. I would probably learn with a 1600 then build bigger motors with good parts. I can always ask what cam works with which rockers etc. I just wanna learn how to assemble it. Proper torques. Lining up cam gears. Sealants. Rocker geometry. Stuff I need to know to put it together. Rimco can balance it and do machine work for me. Someone else can assemble the heads and figure out my compression. It's a matter of finding someone who has the time and patience to teach. |
Most of that stuff can be found in any VW repair manual and Bill Fisher's "How to Hot Rod Volkswagen Engines."
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'69 Dune Buggy
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mark tucker
Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 23937
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 8:21 am Post subject: Re: Anybody else want to learn? |
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| thats so funny.. rimco & fishers book what joke!!!!allthough the book does have some nice pics. and..... rimco......yikes!!!! |
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jpaull
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3466
Location: Paradise, Ca
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:13 am Post subject: Re: Anybody else want to learn? |
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| Motor60 wrote: |
| Anybody in Orange County California wanna teach me how to build motors? |
How much are you paying your engine building teacher?
It kinda comes across as you would like someone to stop whatever their doing and teach you how to build engines for free. Is that what your asking?
If this is the case, I think every person in the hobby would love to have someone stop their life and 1 on 1 teach them how to build engines, and for free.
Most people have a case checked out at a shop, and get the rest through books and asking questions. My first engine was messed up by a shop that had a builder who was sloppy. I chose to never trust anyone else for the building process again. I had 3 books open spread out next to each other analyzing the steps over and over, back words and forwards. comparing all 3, and making the best decision.
It sounds like you want to bypass all this work and have someone hold your hand through the whole thing, but that's only because you put forth the effort of only one sentence in your detailed request.
If you want quality help, you have to put forth some serious effort. Like get as far as you can, then ask a question. See how far you can get on your own.
If you lived in Sacramento, I would totally help, but even if you lived next door I would tell you to get as far as you get on your own, then I would help, then see how much farther you can get, then help.... teach a man to fish..........
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[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg
Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth. |
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jeff68
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2007
Posts: 298
Location: Sarasota, Florida
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: Anybody else want to learn? |
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| I'm surprised no one suggested to get, use and reference the appropriate Bentley manual. Lots of great information in these manuals if you pay attention to the text, pictures and explanations given. This is a great place to start in my opinion. |
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d5626
Samba Member
Joined: December 09, 2008
Posts: 154
Location: Pomona
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:21 pm Post subject: Re: Anybody else want to learn? |
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| I think I get what you're saying in that given the choice of trying to figure it out on your own, which you probably could, and learning from the mistakes made, it makes a lot more sense to see if you could get the opportunity to first watch someone who knows what they're doing. That's how I would do it too. Luckily I had family members as mentors and can still remember being told dont touch anything. The first learning step was pay attention, watch closely ask questions. Probably joining a VW club and getting together with other members to watch/learn would be your best option. |
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stanthedog
Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2006
Posts: 357
Location: Portland,oregon.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:56 pm Post subject: Re: Anybody else want to learn? |
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| I'd check out the local VW clubs. Here in portland, the rose city volksters is the local group. I've asked for help as have others, Had four guy's show up to help me on my project. Great group. |
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bladerunner80
Samba Member
Joined: February 13, 2011
Posts: 255
Location: Fife, WA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:05 pm Post subject: Re: Anybody else want to learn? |
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I built a 1776 a few years ago. I had only done engine swaps before, never attempted to build one. I found a local reputable shop (Northwest Connecting Rod here in the Seattle area) and picked the owner's brain when he had time. I bought 90% of the parts through him, he was able to show and steer me in the right direction with a lot of the build. When it came to setting the rocker geometry and a few other things I wasn't comfortable with, I paid extra and he walked me through it in his shop on the weekends.
In preparation, I read tons of books, watched tons of videos (including the Bug Me video at least 10 times) and read lots and lots of info on Samba. Like someone said earlier, there is a big different between building engines and assembling engines. There is a true art to it that you only get through experience.
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vwracerdave
Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15308
Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 4:28 pm Post subject: Re: Anybody else want to learn? |
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The very first step is learning how to properly use hand tools. It is amazing how many people do not know how to use a screw driver or combination wrench. Water pump pliers and Cresent wrenches are the wrong tools for building an engine. You also need to learn how to read and use precision measuring devices like micrometers, calipers, and torque wrenches.
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Motor60
Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2014
Posts: 625
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: Anybody else want to learn? |
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| jpaull wrote: |
| Motor60 wrote: |
| Anybody in Orange County California wanna teach me how to build motors? |
How much are you paying your engine building teacher?
It kinda comes across as you would like someone to stop whatever their doing and teach you how to build engines for free. Is that what your asking?
If this is the case, I think every person in the hobby would love to have someone stop their life and 1 on 1 teach them how to build engines, and for free.
Most people have a case checked out at a shop, and get the rest through books and asking questions. My first engine was messed up by a shop that had a builder who was sloppy. I chose to never trust anyone else for the building process again. I had 3 books open spread out next to each other analyzing the steps over and over, back words and forwards. comparing all 3, and making the best decision.
It sounds like you want to bypass all this work and have someone hold your hand through the whole thing, but that's only because you put forth the effort of only one sentence in your detailed request.
If you want quality help, you have to put forth some serious effort. Like get as far as you can, then ask a question. See how far you can get on your own.
If you lived in Sacramento, I would totally help, but even if you lived next door I would tell you to get as far as you get on your own, then I would help, then see how much farther you can get, then help.... teach a man to fish..........
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I'm pretty sure all our lives are as busy and important as yours Mr Paul. I have put my bug back together electrical brakes and all. I can tune carbs now thx to aircooled John (who ALWAYS offers help and doesn't expect anything in return except buy the parts from him, which is very fair). I just don't know the basics in taking apart s motor and putting it back together. I can figure out the rest thru asking questions. But I'm a hands on learner. My garage is almost a VW mechanics shop without the car lift. If that says anything. I just thought if anyone was going to rebuild or build a motor I would like to go hands on too and learn. I'm sure 90% of us work and have families just as I do. And I would only expect that we would work on our days off or at our leisure. Not to mention making a cool friend is always good. Because each one of us has something to offer the other. For instance, if the guy teaching me something, his home AC went out, I would probably just fix it as long as he bought the parts because I'm now his friend. Just an example of how we have other trades to offer. But if that's your game, so be it. Not knocking you for it. You reap what you sow. I don't ask for a reward if I'm going to help someone. That's why my life is good all the time.
Sorry men, I'll resort to the videos and ask as I go. Thx for the input tho. |
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jpaull
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3466
Location: Paradise, Ca
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: Anybody else want to learn? |
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| Motor60 wrote: |
| jpaull wrote: |
| Motor60 wrote: |
| Anybody in Orange County California wanna teach me how to build motors? |
How much are you paying your engine building teacher?
It kinda comes across as you would like someone to stop whatever their doing and teach you how to build engines for free. Is that what your asking?
If this is the case, I think every person in the hobby would love to have someone stop their life and 1 on 1 teach them how to build engines, and for free.
Most people have a case checked out at a shop, and get the rest through books and asking questions. My first engine was messed up by a shop that had a builder who was sloppy. I chose to never trust anyone else for the building process again. I had 3 books open spread out next to each other analyzing the steps over and over, back words and forwards. comparing all 3, and making the best decision.
It sounds like you want to bypass all this work and have someone hold your hand through the whole thing, but that's only because you put forth the effort of only one sentence in your detailed request.
If you want quality help, you have to put forth some serious effort. Like get as far as you can, then ask a question. See how far you can get on your own.
If you lived in Sacramento, I would totally help, but even if you lived next door I would tell you to get as far as you get on your own, then I would help, then see how much farther you can get, then help.... teach a man to fish..........
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I'm pretty sure all our lives are as busy and important as yours Mr Paul. I have put my bug back together electrical brakes and all. I can tune carbs now thx to aircooled John (who ALWAYS offers help and doesn't expect anything in return except buy the parts from him, which is very fair). I just don't know the basics in taking apart s motor and putting it back together. I can figure out the rest thru asking questions. But I'm a hands on learner. My garage is almost a VW mechanics shop without the car lift. If that says anything. I just thought if anyone was going to rebuild or build a motor I would like to go hands on too and learn. I'm sure 90% of us work and have families just as I do. And I would only expect that we would work on our days off or at our leisure. Not to mention making a cool friend is always good. Because each one of us has something to offer the other. For instance, if the guy teaching me something, his home AC went out, I would probably just fix it as long as he bought the parts because I'm now his friend. Just an example of how we have other trades to offer. But if that's your game, so be it. Not knocking you for it. You reap what you sow. I don't ask for a reward if I'm going to help someone. That's why my life is good all the time.
Sorry men, I'll resort to the videos and ask as I go. Thx for the input tho. |
You absolutely do NOT need to wait for someone to come to your home and help you build your engine to get "hands on" training.
You will get less "hands on" with someone there.
My encouragement is to dive in yourself, get that "hands on" training and see how far you get. Go for it. What your lacking is the confidence to do the first one, and make that first mistake. Its not about doing it without asking, its about trying something first, and getting the wheels spinning in your mind before relying on someone else to immediately help/answer.
If you have the courage to do this, you will find that everything else in life can be learned and fixed in a process that does not wait for another human being, or rely upon.
If you are willing to help yourself learn, and see how far you can get, I would help you all day long for free.
Tell you what, if you have your case checked out properly, all machine work done, get all your parts, and make the trip to Sac, I will spend a weekend and see how far we can get on your engine. But YOUR doing the work and im only checking things here and there. I will be working on my stuff too. I'm not making it easy on you. If one thing doesn't work, or cant be done properly, then it would take another weekend or another time.
_________________
[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg
Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth. |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 26788
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:23 pm Post subject: Re: Anybody else want to learn? |
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Glad to hear you want to learn!
There are certainly lots of different ways to learn of course, which work better or worse for different people.
One thing for sure, you won't get anything if you don't ask. I know some clubs do something like that, where they get together and try to learn something. ( I don't know how successful they are)
I'm not very good at teaching hands-on but, pretty good with written instructions. If you do come across a question, don't hesitate to ask, send me a PM if you want. |
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yamaducci
Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2010
Posts: 2335
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
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| Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:16 am Post subject: Re: Anybody else want to learn? |
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When I was 8 my family was moving north and stopped at my Uncles in New Smyrna and Daytona Beach, FLA. I saw the buggies and Bugs and immediately bought my first Hot VW's and VW Trends Magazines. I was then given "How to Hot Rod VW Engines" by a mechanic. I read that book cover to cover no less than 6 times before I ever touched an engine. Since I like to take things apart and see how they work I purchased and old bug in need of restoration. I completely disassembled the entire care all the way down to the crank and rods. I was 13 by then and decided to volunteer in a VW shop. I did whatever they said and learned by watching them initially. I took what I read and saw and tore apart and applied that to my first build.
Today with all the knowledge there is available to us with books, history of the sport and the internet; you can learn much faster. If I did it again I would still read the books cover to cover many times including the assembly manuals like Bentley. I would also learn engine blueprinting and focus on buying the proper tools before ever attempting a rebuild. It's always a good idea to tear down a stock engine to learn but don't try to put it back together without having the books and tools at hand. Also, build a stock engine first because you have the procedures and tolerances right there in the book. The procedures for specific high performance combinations will not be found in a book. Good luck, use the search function and ask questions.
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-John Cox
My 2498 Turbo Re-Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5578697#5578697
3rd Brake Light Safety Stars- I still have a couple with blue light left. Email me if interested. |
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yamaducci
Samba Member
Joined: March 30, 2010
Posts: 2335
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
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| Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:20 am Post subject: Re: Anybody else want to learn? |
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Also I see you are in Orange County.
Whatever you do; do not learn anything from Lowbugget or AJ Simms. It won't be the right way.
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-John Cox
My 2498 Turbo Re-Build Thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5578697#5578697
3rd Brake Light Safety Stars- I still have a couple with blue light left. Email me if interested. |
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