fuel line replacement

[pushkick]

has anyone replaced the existing fuel lines from pump to engine with ss lines?
what about the return line? seems that with the new fuels this could be the only way to make the lines more reliable. any comments on pros and cons ?
_________________
i see said the blind man to his deaf dog
i am going to quit smoking and drinking and die a healthy man. gotta laugh
there is no deed to the planet earth
1990 vw automatic camper

[sciroccojim]

I don't really think reliability is a concern as much as longevity. New rubber hose is relatively inexpensive and should be good for 15-20 years. Stainless hoses will have rubber internals and while the stainless sheath will help prevent damage to the outside, the hose will still degrade. And damage to the hoses doesn't seem to be an issue.
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1987 Westy Camper

[pushkick]

i was thinking of using ss tubing instead of ss hose. this should solve many issues. forgot to specify what i was thinking of using.
_________________
i see said the blind man to his deaf dog
i am going to quit smoking and drinking and die a healthy man. gotta laugh
there is no deed to the planet earth
1990 vw automatic camper

[sciroccojim]

I don't see why not, although you'll need at least two pieces of flexible hose (feed and return) as the motor rocking around in its mounts will eventually break metal lines.

And you should really put a flare or barb on each pressurized line end that joins up with flexible hose, in order to prevent the hose from popping off.
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1987 Westy Camper

[djkeev]

In theory, its a great idea.
In actuality, there are so many hurdles that it simply isn't worth the trouble.

How will the metal line fasten to the fuel pressure regulator?
How will the metal line fasten to the fuel rails?
Will you eliminate the rubber hose to each injector?
How will the connections to the fuel tank be made? The fuel pump? The fuel filer?
What about vibration and metal fatigue? Where will you brace the metal pipes? How often will they be braced?

I see metal pipes with a LOT of short hose connections at each end which effectively doubles the number of fuel clamps and possible leakage points.

My experience is that the hoses leak at the clamps, screw on or squeeze on.

Nice idea folks, move along...... Nothing to see here......

Dave
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Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert

[bluebus86]

use of lined hose made to resist todays government mandated gasoline is the solution.

so use 30R9 or equivelent lined hose. the liner is a fluoropolymer, a teflon like substance. this liner resists the new mandated fuels. the older 30R7 hose is not lined



also consider the trouble you may have integrating an all hard tubeing fuel line into the injectors, and regulator, and note they may be issues with vibrations that could lead to cracks or wear in the hard lines.

the real solution is the lined rubber hoses. as it is easy effective and inexpensive to do.

also do not forget the install fuel pressure rated hose on the regulator vacuum port and clamp both ends. if the regulator diaphram fails, high pressure fuel is shot into the vacuum hose, if that hose fails, fuel will be sprayed about. if the hose is good and not able to come off, the spilled fuel will be contained by the hose and it will be shot into the intake manifold, were it will harmlessly cause your motor to stall out, no fire risk!!!!!
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[iliketowalk]

Van-Cafe / GoWesty sell replacement kits for the plastic feed and return lines for $25 or so. That said they don't usually wear out, even after 30 years.
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1986 Weekender "Birch"

[pushkick]

great points but the reason i was wanting to change to something like ss is because of the mouse issue of them and squirrels chewing on the lines. i dont think they would bother the metal. maybe i need some different hose protector material that may stop their chewing. lucky i havent had fire yet. last time #3 cylinder hose was chewed next to the fuel rail. squirted out over the tail pipe. i ran out of gas before i knew what happened. it could have been sabotage given the area i am staying. they tend to do that kind of thing around here just to make a point. if it had been #2 cylinder line would have been over the catalytic converter or header. and lucky they chewed on the direction toward the rear and not towards the front. second time in 5 years that i had a problem. seems like that vw should have run the lines somewhere if they leaked they would not cause a fire potential. maybe some ss shielding with a nylon inner sleeve. although the metal ss lines would far exceed any carb restrictions and future restrictions and probably never go bad at least from oxidation in a lifetime. metal coated with rubber sleeve for vibration issues and puncture holes sealing.
_________________
i see said the blind man to his deaf dog
i am going to quit smoking and drinking and die a healthy man. gotta laugh
there is no deed to the planet earth
1990 vw automatic camper

[bluebus86]

[pushkick]

technically if i was going to design such a fuel system i would have put pressure sensor control system in to maybe stop some issues when a leak happens. seems like there should be something like a gas safety shutoff like the system or system fuel pressure fault. maybe a safety pressure valve for high and low pressure band that would shut off pump and dump lines safely. also run the lines so there is minimal chance of puncture or long term failure problems causing problems with fire.
_________________
i see said the blind man to his deaf dog
i am going to quit smoking and drinking and die a healthy man. gotta laugh
there is no deed to the planet earth
1990 vw automatic camper

[Sodo]

Fuel is not corrosive (enough) to metal, to warrant SS fuel lines. No other vehicles on the road require SS fuel lines, and there are a lot of other vehicles.

A good solution is to just do what the other vehicles do. Change the hoses to a more reliable hose, which is what all the other vehicles HAVE from the factory. And what everyone's doing to Vanagons now (hopefully). No additional benefit gained by SS lines.
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[SteveMc]

[djkeev]

Did anyone read OP's response?
He is considering these metal lines because of mice and tree rat (squirrel) damage.

They eat his fuel lines.

Dave
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Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473

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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537

Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert

[pushkick]

hey that excess flow valve is a good solution if it would work on fuel and at the pressures and flow rates of the fuel line. the reason for ss is the salt enviroment during winter months here in ohio also any coastal areas like florida have issue with corrosion of steel. not much price difference with steel vs ss tubing. i think i remember another thread where someone used steel tubing. i will have to search. but for now i think i will try the new hose and some of the hose shield with a ss hose shield over the existing hose and shield should keep those rubber and plastic eating critters away. i cant understand why they chew the lines. i am always finding empty nut shells on the engine block. i can understand the nut shells on the engine block because it is warm but why the fuel lines. it is not only tree rats but ground squirrel or chipmunks.
_________________
i see said the blind man to his deaf dog
i am going to quit smoking and drinking and die a healthy man. gotta laugh
there is no deed to the planet earth
1990 vw automatic camper

[bluebus86]

[SteveMc]

[pushkick]

well after research of cost of fuel line (rubber) and protective abrasive hose sheath. in my case ss and silica (from mcmaster carr) it would be cheaper to use ss 5/16" tubing from fuel pump to pressure regulator. the issue with fittings on the end of the tube would resolve the leaking issues or roll a bead on the end of tube would be cheaper than fittings. although i think i will use gates 5/16" fuel injection j30r9 hose , i have tried this and it seems to hold at the pressures of the fuel system and is carb rated. i think i will use the protective hose sheath from mcmaster carr they have several silica and multiple ss . the one thing i have noticed is that the critters only chew on the hose that has cloth covering which was the old hose from previous fuel line change. while inspecting the fuel lines i noticed that they chewed the 12mm hose from tank to filter. it also had cloth covering. ss hose is way to expensive to even consider for this application. i have stopped using french fry oil to lubricate the hoses!
_________________
i see said the blind man to his deaf dog
i am going to quit smoking and drinking and die a healthy man. gotta laugh
there is no deed to the planet earth
1990 vw automatic camper

[Merian]

solid tubes be pickin' up bad vibrations
it'll give them excitations

they pickin' up bad vibrations (Oom bop, bop, bad vibrations)
it's giving them excitations(Oom bop, bop, excitations)

Bad bad bad vibrations (Oom bop, bop)
It's giving them excitations(Oom bop, bop, excitations)
Bad bad bad vibrations vibrations (Oom bop, bop)
It's giving them excitations (Oom bop, bop, excitations)

Close your eyes
the flames are closer now
Softly smile, I know it must be designed
to avoid those bad vibrations

I smarter than an engineer
I really got no fear
Van Van burn vibrations!
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....

[pushkick]

i replaced the fuel line with gates 30r14t2 fuel injection line(napa sells it) with a ss hose protector (mcmaster carr). the old line from pmp to pressure reg. was plastic 1/4" ID and 5/16" OD and they used the fuel injection hose and clamps to couple to pressure reg. and pmp. plastic line was used from pressure reg to tank return inlet with fuel inject hose for coupling. i didnt replace the return plastic line seems ok. the thing about the plastic line the ends didnt even have a bead on the end and they didnt leak i replaced due to the old fuel injection coupling . so i think next time i will replace the return line with ss tubing and the feed line to pressure reg. with ss tubing with couplings on each end. that way all i have to do is replace couplings the ss tubing should last forever.
_________________
i see said the blind man to his deaf dog
i am going to quit smoking and drinking and die a healthy man. gotta laugh
there is no deed to the planet earth
1990 vw automatic camper

[kamzcab86]