Back But Confused

[Komta280]

I need your help otherwise my retirement fun car will be a Mazda Miata instead of a VW.

It seems like not that long ago (15 years?) I was looking for a car project when I retired when I started reading HOT VW magazine. A restored bug or Ghia convertible sounded nice. I've owned four VWs between 1975 and 1985 ('67, '69, '73 Bugs, '71 Westphalia). Parts were plentiful and especially cheap. Now I'm a couple of years until retirement and getting ready and it seems the VW scene has changed significantly in some areas.

And purely for the sake of FYI, here's my general thoughts about my future project car for your opinion:

- Haven't decided on a convertible Bug or Ghia, or a Bus (but leaning towards the Ghia). I owned a '71 bus and, while I loved the driving position and openness, it's lack of power (and engine access) was very disturbing.

- It will be basically stock but with; 1) better/disc brakes 2) stronger engine with an eye towards a balance of power, gas mileage and rock solid reliability. It would be nice to have a decent heater. I intend to drive it a lot, not race it or show it.

- Paint, tires, wheels, interior (tweed), dash gauges, all upgraded. I'm fortunate that money is not a real issue; the reason I waited until retirement.

Just a super clean, rock solid, slightly modified VW. Now to my questions


Parts: I get it that factory VWs stopped being manufactured. But do I understand correctly that NOBODY is manufacturing new engine cases and transmissions?! Seems like there is no shortage of people making new replacement parts for every nut and bolt on VWs going back to the 50s but I keep reading that every engine case or transmission case that exists are the last ones. I find this hard to believe with the millions of people (with no end in sight) that would support a factory manufacturing base for these parts. Or did I miss something and you can get a new case but have to pay and arm and a leg for it?

Engine Prices: Understood this is related to time passed and the parts situations. But where did those $800 rebuilt, turn-key engines go? It seems like it wasn't even possible to spend $2500 on any VW engine a few years ago unless it was gold plated 2400cc turbocharged 300hp monster.

Highway/Freeway Flyer Transmissions: I've read the various opinions and there seems to be a general consensus that such transmissions can have major drawbacks (cooling, engine lugging) unless you live in a state that's flat as pancake and spend all of you time at 80mph. And I like those that point out a much cheaper alternative is a second set of taller rear tires on stock rims. All of that said, is there an everyday driving alternative (5 speed) that allows RELATIVELY stock engines to stay in the proper performance band that VW engines are basically designed for yet allowing more comfortable cursing at 70-80mph? Frankly, I don't know the proper performance band for relatively stock VWs (3000-4000 rpm?) where they can happily live all day long.

Single Port vs. Dual Port: I know a bit about engines but I want to make sure I'm not missing something. I believe the primary issue here is torque, which would be especially important in a lower revving stock VW engine. Since I'm looking to stay with relative stock approach to engine building - I'd rather have a standard 1800cc than a screaming 1500cc - I'm not looking for horsepower and Corvette-like acceleration. I want increased performance on the low end with good gas mileage and bulletproof reliability. Is that single port?

Safety: Yes, a VW will come out on the losing end with a Yukon every time. But have there been any MEANINGFUL changes in VW safety that would make me (and the wife) feel like we're not a target for every 5000lb behemoth that's riding my bumper? And, no, a Glock isn't a option.

Thanks. And please don't make me buy a Miata.

[67jason]

But do I understand correctly that NOBODY is manufacturing new engine cases and transmissions?
both are being reproduced, no longer cheap but are available for purchase. but unless you absolutely need one, there is nothing wrong with having old ones rebuilt by competent machine shops/engine shops/tranny shops.

Engine Prices
cheap engines are pretty much a thing of the past. inflation, labor, cost of doing business, manufacturing of parts etc all have gone up over the years. a well built turn key 1600 is going to cost! remember when you get could a sub $10k car brand new? those days are gone too lol

Highway/Freeway Flyer Transmissions

stop reading nonsense on the internet
those terms are marketing terms put out years ago by high volume mail order tranny builder(s). gear your transmission to your engine, and if you dont know what you need then call up (not text, email, chat or forums) a expert tranny builder and discuss your needs. if you need recommendations, just ask.

Single Port vs. Dual Port

virtually no difference in power and torque between a 1600 single port and 1600 dual port. the very minimal differences between the two are not enough to put one of the over in a "which is better" contest. dual port offers more options in heads and carbs then single port.

I'd rather have a standard 1800cc than a screaming 1500cc

when you say "standard 1800" are you talking about bus (type 4) motors? bugs, ghias, type 3s biggest engine was 1600cc.

A well built 1600 with a few basic bolt on's, say dual kadrons, a header/extractor exhaust, minor head work, mild cam and maybe 1.25 rockers will make a bullet proof solid reliable driver, assuming it was built well by a competent builder. However the same can be said of a 1776 or a mild to wild stroker, just different heads, and cam and carbs and obviously more power lol. if you need engine guru recommendations just ask.

please don't make me buy a Miata.

For the love of god dont buy a miata!!

I say start looking for your dream project car now as prices go up all the time. I know you said you have a few years until your retirement, but todays $5000 project driver car will soon be tomorrows $8-10k project driver car.
_________________
67 bug x3
67 ghia
64 bug

[busdaddy]

Does a cup of coffee, gallon of gas or a hamburger cost the same as it did in 1985?, why would you expect VW's and thier parts to somehow escape inflation? On top of that you aren't the only one approaching retirement age who "had one back in the day" or "always wanted one", many of your contemporaries have planned well for thier later years and have the bucks to get what they want, VW's are popular and the market reflects that.

You can still find those $800 new long blocks, but it'll consist of 100% Chinese parts and be slapped together with no regard for durability or performance. If you want something reliable you have to pay the builder to be the quality control inspector now as well, building a good motor requires spending many extra hours inspecting, measuring, machining and making things right.

If you want good power and heat and an 80 mph cruise you'll likely find a Subaru swap will suit your needs best.
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[KTPhil]

Go for a Ghia. They have always been higher priced than Bugs, but they haven't gone skyward like really old Bugs and multi-window Buses already have. Whether for desirability or for market value, get in before the rush. The older the better.

Find the oldest model with the least amount of body damage or rust. Beware of bondo, bring your magnet. Many of these were patched to look decent for quick sale, but were not repaired correctly.

You could get front discs on a Ghia from the mid-60s. Plenty of room in the engine bay for more/better carbs, or a later block with doghouse cooler tin.

And they look so cool!

[hitest]

X2 ^^^.

Ghias are still a bit of a secret- but go early (-70). Why on earth there aren't more people going crazy for a car that has all the simplicity of a beetle but the style of a coachbuilt, hand assembled car is beyond me.
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[skills@eurocarsplus]

[raygreenwood]

[EverettB]

[modok]

[andk5591]

67 Jason and others have this pretty much nailed and the costs seemed to have made the major jump over the last 5 years IMHO. It is what it is. It was like one day I woke up and the prices doubled.

As much as I love the look of Ghias, the rot issues scare me. If you want one, look hard for a west coast car.

Depending on the car you start with (condition and cost), and assuming you are doing the bulk of the work, plan on at least $10K and go from there. The engine is going to be a big chunk depending on what you do. If going larger displacement, then go big or go home since the cost will be similar no matter what displacement you go. Only drawback is the bigger and beefier takes you further away from the classic driving experience. My woodie has a 1955 stroker and it pulls like a freight train, but my favorite car to drive is my 65 with a slightly beefed up 1200 that I wont drive over 65....Keep that in mind.

Last thing - before you start buying parts, read feedback on here. Like Mid America has a really nice catalog, but they totally suck...My go-to places for 95% of my stuff is Wolfsburg West and CIP1
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them...

[Sharp64]

Simply put, buy the nicest, most rust free car you can afford. Preferably something with a nice paint job 2-3 years old so that any rust issues will be showing through. Engine, interior, suspension can all be easily fixed but body work and paint get very spendy very quickly and aren't as easy to tackle in a home garage by an amateur in my opinion. I would also try to find something that fits your taste already. There are lots of mildly customized vehicles out there for sale for considerably less than what the people that customize we the. Have I to them or what it would cost to do the work yourself. Just make sure the work was done correctly. Educate yourself so you know what to look for and what questions to ask. And if you ask questions and people with knowledge give you answers you don't like, don't ignore those answers.
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine

[67rustavenger]

^^^^This. In fact Sharp64 thought that this was such an important point he typed it twice. Lol.
I do agree. I have a rusted pos 67 Delux in the driveway that I thought I could make a nice driver out of. Then after spending around $1400 in body replacement parts. I took a big step back and re-evaluated what I was doing. The end result was a new search in the classifieds here for a car that suited my needs. Rather than spending 10K to get the rusty car running a driving. I paid 6K for mechanically complete 67 from AZ. While the body is not perfect. It's not rusted through the rear quarters or the floors. From 20ft. many can't see the chips and dings that I do in the car.
I hope that you select an ACVW over the Miata. They will cost about the same. But the cool factor goes way up in a older VW.
Now I did once see a Miata run down a 911 on a race track. But on the other hand. I was once driving a 911 and had an ACVW run away from me on a hill in OC.
Good Luck.
_________________
I have learned over the years.
Cheap parts are gonna disappoint you.
Buy Once, Cry Once!

There's never enough time to do it right the first time. But there's always enough time to do it thrice.
GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo!

[KTPhil]

To repeat the advice about the best rust free car... unless you are a handy welder/fab guy, you will pay more than you will ever get selling the car. We all know this.

We love the cars and spend money we will never see again, just for the enjoyment, NOT as an investment.

The implication is that you will end up with "more car" if you buy a car someone ELSE has already put too much money in. Don't imagine you can buy cheap, spend to get it fixed, and end up money ahead; it won't happen that way!

How many ads say "$20K invested, sacrificing for $15K" or words to that effect? Too many! Benefit from the seller's overspending if you want the best deal. As my brother says, "let him take the haircut."

This means more money up front, but cheaper in the end. Tough thinking to do up front, especially if you are selling the idea to your better half.

[Sharp64]

[KTPhil]

Nothing wrong with overspending, as long as you are not trying to flip it for money.

I put way too much into my late dad's old fastback to ever see a return. I don't care. With it now back to how he knew it, he is my silent co-pilot every time I get in and drive it. Priceless!

[63 vwnotch]

[63 vwnotch]

[sixfootdan]

Miata's are nice.
_________________
Schrodinger's cat walked into a bar and it didn't.


GO SEAHAWKS!!!

[Komta280]

Thanks for all of your replies.

I appreciate all of the responses about a rust free car being so desirable. I guess my point was that there had seemed to be (as in past-tense) a lot of aftermarket manufacturers churning out the various panels and even frames. Why would anyone repair old rusty stuff when new - although not OEM - was a click away on the internet? Is this all gone? Part of my thinking here came from an episode of Wheeler Dealers where they did a refresh/restore of a ('60?) Bug and they seemed to have no problem tearing the car down to the frame and replacing parts and panels with new stuff for a final reasonable cost. I know they're in the UK where parts are cheaper and probably more readily available but still ....

I also understand prices going up but I've been following the car restoration/auction scene closely for over twenty years and it seems that VW prices have shot up out of proportion with the rest of the industry while other areas (e.g., muscle cars) have leveled out or even dropped. Anyway, I guess it is what it is.

As far as my engine comments "prefer standard power to screaming power", I just want better drivability so there's less strain and for once I can think about passing on a hill. There's also reliability for casual cruising. Out of the 25-30 cars I've owned and a gazillion miles I've driven in 46 years, VWs were the only cars where I had to actually replace the engine. And I'm not really open to a conversion like a Subaru engine - seems to defeat the purpose of going with a VW. I was hoping that maybe somewhere out there was a little bit bigger crate engine (1800+) that was bulletproof, got a meaningful bump in power, and where an analog guy like myself could still tinker with on the weekend without risking mechanical mayhem.

And finally, I don't want anyone to get the idea I'm bad-mouthing the Miata. They're great little cars and their owners love them as much as VW owners love theirs. It's just that, after too many years of "better" cars with automatic transmissions and mind-numbing isolation, I have very fond memories of the mechanical feel of a VW. You got to say something about a car where there's always a whiff of gas and oil in the air.

[e&m_ghia]

There's lots of great advice here already...

We note you're in Virginia... And are thinking of a Ghia... One thing that really hasn't been discussed is the weather in some of these parts... The roads in our part of Virginia are heavily salted/brined between, roughly, Christmas and St Patrick's Day. So this could factor into the decision, if you're thinking of a Ghia & keeping it for the longer term... A car that can do better against the salted roads, might be a consideration for a longer driving season.

(We love our Ghia. But she's in hibernation over much of the winter, unless we get a lucky rain to wash the salt away. The only time I feel a bit jealous about the Miata across the street, is if it goes out when the temperature goes up a bit in February - but the roads are still covered with a quarter-inch of wet salt, that keep our Ghia in her hibernation...)

On the engine: We like our custom-built engine. Not because she can cruise easily at 80mph or whatever, which she can... But because we can merge into traffic, and climb any hill around here while keeping up with traffic & passing it when we want to. Riding the interstates in these cars & mingling with the 18-wheelers on I-95 isn't really all that pleasant - we use our Subies for those trips... We emphasize the back roads for the Ghia, which are way more fun, even if they take a bit longer. We do take the Ghia on interstates in some regions, where the traffic isn't as heavy (rural western MD & eastern PA) - but the issue in those parts has more to do with "climbing hills" than "cruise speed", again.

On safety: Ghia noses are about the same height as a lot of the SUV & pickup bumpers, around here. Something to consider if you want to park on the street... The bigger bumpers on the later ACVWs might offer a couple of inches of margin against some cars, but not a lot of "safety". There were incremental improvements over the years, but none that will make a winning fight against a Yukon, as you mention. I like retractable 3-point belts, and seats that don't promote whiplash, though...