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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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 Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 9:04 am Post subject: Re: Rust Converters Revisited.... What do you use?? |
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I was digging around during an answer to the "rust converter in Canada thread"...and learned something I should have seen a long time ago...regarding the differences in Jasco and Ospho. Thought I would post the quote here.
Rust Check has less Phosphoric acid (listed as 15% to 30%....than Ospho which lists 45%.
But....Rust check also lists about 7% Tannic acid which is also the other chemical that does really well for converting. Some information notes that tannic acid converted rust...which is ferric tannate....may be a little more stable and rust resistant than those that use only phosphoric acid.
You should try some and let us know how it works.
Also....interestingly enough...I have noted that Jasco prep and primer is listed ...and appears to be so.,...about 2.5X stronger than Ospho.
In reality...its NOT a higher concentration.....its just more EFFICIENT.
Jasco lists 37.5% Phosphoric acid.
Ospho lists about 45% phosphoric acid.
However...the difference...is that Ospho is mainly water, a polymer solution somewhere in there and the phosphoric acid.
The Jasco and several other rust converters.....also have ethylene glycol monobutyl ether.....which is used as a wetting and flow agent to make the solution PENETRATE deeper into textures and microscopic fissures....and it has this in place of a lot of the water in Ospho.
Ray |
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scrivyscriv
Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011
Posts: 2922
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: Rust Converters Revisited.... What do you use?? |
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good to see you're still around here Ray, I noticed you've dropped off the bay forum for quite a while. I enjoy reading your stuff, it's usually quite informative.
_________________
Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:57 am Post subject: Re: Rust Converters Revisited.... What do you use?? |
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| scrivyscriv wrote: |
| good to see you're still around here Ray, I noticed you've dropped off the bay forum for quite a while. I enjoy reading your stuff, it's usually quite informative. |
I have dropped off the bay forum because its a little too non reality based for me. Also its mainly a forum where the primary tech answers are given by a very narrow, close knit group , some of which do not put up with technical suggestions, technology or input that may use examples or materials from other VW types or other automobie types.
Though some .....but not all....of those people are highly experienced and skilled.....many answer based....sometimes. ... solely from "belief", lore and old expriences that are not always proven.....just inferred.....and do not like dissenting views to their opinions at times....even if they are backed up by fact or data.
Too many on the bus forum.....have the habit of getting bitchy and shutting down a conversation that in their opinion is using technology or an example from another car type....because its not "bus" based....or in THEIR opinion....is off topic.....even though the technology offered is spot-on useful for the problem at hand......as if the forum is there for their range of opinion only.
I can hang with all of that....because the people in question have a lot to offer, are "generally" experienced and intelligent. But one or more of the moderators.....have the habit of only watching the backs of those they know personally....instead of being equal and judicious when an argument breaks out....and using their moderator power to censor.
I think that sucks....so rather than put up with lop sided moderation.....I just stay out of that particular trailer park. I actually have little or no interest in buses.
I do have interest in the wide range of technical parts manufacturing solutions the buses may need....because I am already working on many of them for 411, 412 and other cars (parts molding, plastics, vacuum forming pressure molding etc.).....and I have a big interest in type 4 engines and solutions for longevity and difficult parts acquisition.
I find it amazing how many questions in the bus forum come up....and go unanswered. ...or poorly answered....by the powers that be on that forum. ..simply because they do not know the complete history of the type 4 engine and/or what has already been done......in other arenas.....because they ignore it because in their mind its not "bus based".
Its easier just to spend valuable time elsewhere rather than argue with a biased moderator....partly because being a moderator is a time consuming job and I generally will pat them on the back for their time and effort.
Ray |
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theKbStockpiler
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2012
Posts: 2316
Location: Rust Belt
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: Rust Converters Revisited.... What do you use?? |
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| Quote: |
| I have dropped off the bay forum because |
Rust is Rust here at the Body/Paint forum.  That's why I like it here. 
_________________
My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask. |
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63 vwnotch
Samba Member
Joined: December 31, 2002
Posts: 734
Location: Riverside,CA Econo Motors
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:06 pm Post subject: Re: Rust Converters Revisited.... What do you use?? |
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| theKbStockpiler wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I have dropped off the bay forum because |
Rust is Rust here at the Body/Paint forum. That's why I like it here. |
what rust?? please elaborate....
_________________
BUS WANTED: 13 window BUS any year considered.. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: Rust Converters Revisited.... What do you use?? |
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| theKbStockpiler wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I have dropped off the bay forum because |
Rust is Rust here at the Body/Paint forum. That's why I like it here. |
 so true! Ray
He means....that here in the body work forum.....or any generic technical forum.....no one gets their panties in a wad if you are talking about solving a generic technical problem...... in this case rust conversion.......if you use an example or product that is not specific to a vehicle TYPE (like bus, type 3 or 411/412).
In other words .....one could spend a page conversing about the finer points of rust converting......on their fleet of 57 Chevy's......and its still relevant to any vehicle on earth.....and the denizens of this forum wont squeal that its off topic because its the wrong vehicle type. Ray |
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lqqkatjon
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2013
Posts: 36
Location: St. Cloud, MN
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:56 am Post subject: Re: Rust Converters Revisited.... What do you use?? |
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| Thanks for the info. living in the midwest any all all information on any type of rust fighting is good information to know! |
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theKbStockpiler
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2012
Posts: 2316
Location: Rust Belt
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| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:24 am Post subject: Re: Rust Converters Revisited.... What do you use?? |
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If You've seen one Rust Bucket, You've seen em all.
_________________
My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: Rust Converters Revisited.... What do you use?? |
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| theKbStockpiler wrote: |
| If You've seen one Rust Bucket, You've seen em all. |
Up here in the Midwest...like we all pretty much are....its "rust pail"...not "rust bucket"
Read down a bit here http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4141
Ray |
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theKbStockpiler
Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2012
Posts: 2316
Location: Rust Belt
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| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: Rust Converters Revisited.... What do you use?? |
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I just gave this product a try and prefer it over Rustoleum Rust Stripper.
[img] http://www.kleanstrip.com/images/made/uploads/products/PrepEtch_300_268_80.JPG [/img]
http://www.kleanstrip.com/product/phosphoric-prep-etch
It does not flash rust at all compared to Rustoleum RS if you forget and let it dry. They both dissolve rust about the same. Apparently the Muriatic acid in the Rustoleum is the issue there. Prep and Etch is really thin so you have to deal with that.
_________________
My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask. |
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c21darrel
Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2009
Posts: 8211
Location: San Dimas
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 21520
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:27 pm Post subject: Re: Rust Converters Revisited.... What do you use?? |
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The Rustoleum is an odd product chemically. It has qbout 25% hydrochloric acid......which is,killer for removing rust....and hea will cause emough hydrogen embrittlement to cause flash rust. I have no idea why they include phosphoric acid in the mix.....as with that much HcL....there will likely be nothing to convert until after the part is dry.
The akleenatrip product has 40+% phosphoric acid. It should work as well as Ospho. Ray |
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