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74 bug new distributor
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Tim Donahoe
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:08 pm    Post subject: Re: 74 bug new distributor Reply with quote

Try another condenser, as I've had a new Bosch go kaput on me in no time.

Tim
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ashman40
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: 74 bug new distributor Reply with quote

Are you just removing the distributor cap from one distributor and installing the same cap on the other distributor w/o moving any spark plug wires around the cap? This may not work if the two distributors are different models, or if the drive cog at the bottom of one distributor has been rotated 180deg.
Post the model#s from both distributors.

Ideally, what you need to do is while you engine is running well... rotate the crank until the rotor is pointing to the #1 spark plug wire position around the distributor cap.
Remove the old distributor and install the new one.
The cog at the bottom of the distributor will only engage with the top of the distributor drive gear one way. Once this is installed the rotor will still be pointing to where the #1 spark plug wire should be installed... even if it is NOT in the same location. The engine was set to #1 TDC when you pulled the old distributor, it will still be pointing there when the new one is installed. YOU need to make sure the plugs wires are installed so the sparks get to the correct cylinder at the correct time. Also, when installing the new distributor, rotate the body until the notch on the rim of the body which represents the #1 position is lined up with the rotor. You must rotate the distributor to meet the rotor tip... do not touch the crank position, it is already @#1 TDC. Then you can static time the distributor. And then finally install the spark plug wires starting with the #1 spark plug wire over the tip of the rotor and the remaining spark plug wires are installed clockwise in the order 1-4-3-2.

If you didn't follow the above, your plug wires are likely installed wrong on the distributor cap.
To fix...
Rotate the crank until the following two conditions are met:
    1) The TDC or timing marks are lined up with the case split at the top of the crank pulley.
    2) When you rock the crank pulley back and forth the #1 intake and exhaust rocker arms are NOT moving.
    (If #2 is not true, rotate the crank 360-deg and #2 should now be true)

If BOTH conditions are TRUE... your engine is at #1 TDC at the end of the compression stroke and your distributor rotor will be pointing to where the #1 spark plug wire must be installed on the distributor cap.

Notice that this method does not care what model distributor or whether the drive gear is installed correctly or not. It places the crank and cam into position at the end of the compression stroke for #1 cylinder and then has you place the #1 plug wire in the position so the distributor will send the spark to the #1 spark plug.
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Last edited by ashman40 on Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Cusser
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re: 74 bug new distributor Reply with quote

Tim Donahoe wrote:
Try another condenser, as I've had a new Bosch go kaput on me in no time.

Tim


I'm on my original condenser from the 1970s on my German 009 distributors bought in the 1970s. Today, while looking through my boxes of old stuff to see what could be used for resurrection of my 1970, I came across at least 3 brand-new condensers.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:44 pm    Post subject: Re: 74 bug new distributor Reply with quote

Cusser wrote:
Tim Donahoe wrote:
Try another condenser, as I've had a new Bosch go kaput on me in no time.

Tim


I'm on my original condenser from the 1970s on my German 009 distributors bought in the 1970s. Today, while looking through my boxes of old stuff to see what could be used for resurrection of my 1970, I came across at least 3 brand-new condensers.


I wouldn't buy any of the new Bosch condensers or points anymore. Sad as they use to be a quality product. I look and buy NOS points and condensers made in the 60's, 70's, or 80's. They're still plentiful.

When I restored my DVDA distributor in my bus, the distributor had not been used in decades according to the guy I bought it from. It had the used points and condenser in it from back then. The points didn't look too bad and the condenser was the same age. I've been running them now for 5k miles with no issues after filing the points faces..
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Glenn Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:56 pm    Post subject: Re: 74 bug new distributor Reply with quote

I sell hundreds of Bosch condensers a year and never had anyone tell me they had a failure.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 6:29 am    Post subject: Re: 74 bug new distributor Reply with quote

I've had one failure a couple years ago...shit happens.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 12:38 pm    Post subject: Re: 74 bug new distributor Reply with quote

When I removed the old distributor first time I installed electronic distributor in exactly like old one came out then when I installed old distributor back in to engine I took out electronic and installed old one right back in exactly like it originally was. Have tried two different caps and rotors with no success at all. Now it doesn't seem to be firing at all. It was running. Dry badly popping and missing with no idle. Now nothing. I can't locate a condenser locally. I will have to drive 20-30 miles across Tulsa Oklahoma from my home to get one. Anyone think condenser is the problem? Points are burned a little but not bad gapped at .016.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:39 pm    Post subject: Re: 74 bug new distributor Reply with quote

Carguy1956 wrote:
When I removed the old distributor first time I installed electronic distributor in exactly like old one came out then when I installed old distributor back in to engine I took out electronic and installed old one right back in exactly like it originally was. Have tried two different caps and rotors with no success at all. Now it doesn't seem to be firing at all. It was running. Dry badly popping and missing with no idle. Now nothing. I can't locate a condenser locally. I will have to drive 20-30 miles across Tulsa Oklahoma from my home to get one. Anyone think condenser is the problem? Points are burned a little but not bad gapped at .016.


Are you 100 percent certain you have your spark plug wires in the correct positions on the distributor cap? It's starting to sound like a cross spark plug wire.
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Tim Donahoe
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:07 pm    Post subject: Re: 74 bug new distributor Reply with quote

Glenn, you may have lucked out, then. I've had a Bosch condenser go out on me in less than 1000 miles. Recent threads on the subject have appeared on this forum.

It's a bitch when they do go out, because when it's relatively new, you look for other reasons for the timing mark to be jumping around, or the accompanying misfires, rough running, and even backfires.

You check out all the normal items that may cause this, and you end up finding the stupid Bosch condenser was faulty.

I recently wrote Bosch about, so hopefully they'll do something. Hopefully, it was only a bad production run, and I (and other Samber posters) got the bad ones.

Tim
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 2:15 pm    Post subject: Re: 74 bug new distributor Reply with quote

Tim Donahoe wrote:
Glenn, you may have lucked out, then. I've had a Bosch condenser go out on me in less than 1000 miles.

Tim


I've also seen it mentioned frequently as well. The same has been said about the Bosch "blue" coils too.
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ashman40
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2016 4:00 pm    Post subject: Re: 74 bug new distributor Reply with quote

Carguy1956 wrote:
When I removed the old distributor first time I installed electronic distributor in exactly like old one came out then when I installed old distributor back in to engine I took out electronic and installed old one right back in exactly like it originally was.

The question is whether you just popped the two clips to release the distributor cap from one distributor and then (without moving any wires around the cap) you fastened the cap on the new distributor and popped the clips back down??
See this pic from Glenn. It shows an SVDA distributor on the left and a 009 on the right.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The pic illustrates that different model distributors have different #1 plug wire locations. The green circles are were the #1 spark plug wire should be installed if everything is installed as it was at the factory. The small notch in the green circles are a "permanent pencil mark" that you can use to remind you where #1 plug wire goes on the cap, but before you trust it, make sure #1 plug wire belongs there. Like a pencil mark, you place it where it will be a reminder. Don't trust that the PO placed it correctly. The drive gear could have been installed incorrectly; resulting in the #1 plug wire moving around the cap to a different location from where the factory placed it.

Both drive gears for the two distributors are oriented the same (at #1 TDC). This is how you would expect these distributors to look if the distributor drive gear was installed correctly and the engine was at #1 TDC. What this means is if you pulled the left distributor out with the rotor positioned as shown... and then installed the right distributor, the rotor will be pointing to a different location. It has no choice because the cog at the bottom can only interface with the drive gear one way and it hasn't moved. The #1 spark plug was over the tip of the rotor on the left when you removed the cap, but with the right hand distributor installed the #1 plug wire must be moved to a new position over the rotor tip because the engine has not rotated and is STILL waiting for a spark to be deliverd to the #1 cylinder.

The other thing to note... the large square notch in the rim of the distributor that is used to index the distributor cap (the cap can only be installed one way). Notice that the large notch is located at 9-o'clock for the left distributor and at 3-o'clock for the right one. So even if the #1 plug wires were in the same location, you would need to move the wires around the cap anyway because the cap must be installed 180deg from where it was! If #1 plug wire was at 1-o'clock on the left distributor... just removing the cap w/ wires attached and installing it on the right distributor... the #1 plug wire will be at 7-o'clock because the large notch forces the cap to be rotated before it will fit. So no matter what, you will need to remove the wires and reinstall them.


Carguy1956 wrote:
I can't locate a condenser locally. I will have to drive 20-30 miles across Tulsa Oklahoma from my home to get one. Anyone think condenser is the problem? Points are burned a little but not bad gapped at .016.

I'm not convinced it is the condenser. If your points are pitted, then a 0.016" feeler gauge will results in the points being set too far apart. The pitted area will make contact with the feeler before the flats do. Do you have a small diamond finger nail file? File down the point contact surfaces until they are nearly flat. Emory board will work but may take longer. Wipe clean with brake clean on a rag. Then reset your point gap.

TEST:
    Rotate the crank until the points are closed.
    Remove the center distributor cap wire (coming from the ignition coil) and hold it about 1/4" from the body of the distributor.
    Turn the ignition switch to the ON/RUN position (engine NOT running).
    With a plastic knife/wood stick, push on the arm of the points to OPEN the contacts. You should see a blue/white spark JUMP from the end of the coil wire to ground. CLOSE/OPEN the points a few times. Each time a spark should jump to ground.

This is not a definitive test of the condenser, but if the condenser had shorted to ground (one of the ways it can fail) the above test would not work.


Carguy1956 wrote:
Have tried two different caps and rotors with no success at all. Now it doesn't seem to be firing at all.

Do what I suggested above. Rotate the crank until the two conditions are met/true. When they are, place the #1 spark plug wire onto the distributor cap post immediately above the tip of the rotor. Install the remaining wires clockwise in the proper firing order. Static time your distributor to TDC or 5BTDC (either is good enough to start the engine). The engine should no longer backfire. Start the engine.

Let us know how that goes.

If all else fails... follow Speedy Jim's troubleshooting steps. Do each step, don't skip any.
http://speedyjim.net/htm/eng_strt.htm
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:07 pm    Post subject: Re: 74 bug new distributor Reply with quote

Got this bug running. Still seems to be missing a little when throttle held down and running at constant rpm. I think I need new points and condenser and timing set with timing light. And carb adjusted after that. Still not having a good idle either. Anyone agree???
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:27 pm    Post subject: Re: 74 bug new distributor Reply with quote

What did you do to get it running? This info could be useful to some future reader looking for tips on how to fix a similar problem.

The missing you describe could be a lean carb mixture. Have you adjusted the carb after you got the timing going?
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 12:31 pm    Post subject: Re: 74 bug new distributor Reply with quote

Checked number one and firing order again it was all right static timed to 7.5 btdc and it started. Didn't really do anything extra. Same jetting and mixture as before with no missing or anything except now it does miss
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Carguy1956
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 12:31 pm    Post subject: Re: 74 bug new distributor Reply with quote

Checked number one and firing order again it was all right static timed to 7.5 btdc and it started. Didn't really do anything extra. Same jetting and mixture as before with no missing or anything except now it does miss
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:21 pm    Post subject: Re: 74 bug new distributor Reply with quote

Pull one plug wire at a time and try to identify which cylinder has the miss. very possible you have a fouled out a plug or may have a plug wire not properly seated.
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