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Pinnacle Tuning Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2016 Posts: 9 Location: Long Island, NY
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:41 am Post subject: Custom EFi kit using Honda ECU |
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This is my first post ever on the Samba, so bare with me.
I started designing custom efi systems about 8 years ago for different cars. I just recently did one for a Customers VW. I will post pictures of what I did and take some questions about the system if there is any. Hope you guys like it as much as I enjoyed making the system.
I don't have a lot of information on the internals of this engine. The owner purchased a whole 67 bug that came with engine and efi system. From what I was told the engine was a 2180 with a fk8 cam. Again I have no idea what else was inside the engine and honestly not even sure if the given information was correct.
When I was called to come look at the car. The shop that was doing all the work had already installed the engine and trans into the Baja bug. The car was not running and they could not get the car started. The current efi setup was a HAltech f10x and a MSD digital 6al. They had already changed the msd Unit. The engine had spark but no fuel. When I checked the setup I seen that the ecu had no response. I couldn't even connect to it and it didn't have any signals coming out of it. Being that the Haltech was over 10 years old and still ran on DOS operating system. I recommend that they run one of my efi setups which does fuel and spark all in one small package. We came to an agreement on price and off I went to build the system.
I started by removing the efi and ignition.
Then I started making the harness
Then I machined the adaptor to mate the Honda distributor to a stock vw distributor
Then I also built the ecu. This a stock civic ecu with a Demon2 hardware which allows me to make changes on the fly. I use a program called, Neptune to edit the Honda efi code. You can find more information about the program here. http://hrtuning.com/neptune-rtp/
The I bench tested the harness and ecu. Everything was working.
Then when all was done I could start mating the harness to the car.
Here is a few of the harness completed. You can also see the distributor in its final location. The tps sensor is the one that comes with CB Performance throttle body's. Which just a gm style tps sensor. The intake air temp sensor is a stock Honda unit I mounted near the driver side filter. The coolant temp sensor is mounted with a t fitting to where the factory oil pressure switch goes. Then last the map sensor is using a vacuum supply hose from both intakes.
I also like to mention that the ecu controls the oil cooling fan and the fuel pump.
Here is a closer look of the Honda distributor.
The 1000cc ev14 injectors pull double fuel duty. The car currently runs on e85 but since it has a flex fuel sensor integrated into the fuel system it can also run regular pump gas without the owner having to change anything. The fuel and timing changes automatically.
Here she is complete
I have a couple videos of the car using the two step that works off the clutch switch and of the car on the dyno but I have yet to figure out how to post videos to this sit. Thank you for looking hope you guys wnjoy as much I liked building the system. |
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Pinnacle Tuning Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2016 Posts: 9 Location: Long Island, NY
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:58 am Post subject: Re: Custom EFi kit using Honda ECU |
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Not sure if this is going to work but if it does, this is the two step at 3200 rpm. You can retard the timing and add fuel during the two step.
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slalombuggy Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010 Posts: 9145 Location: Canada
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 11:34 am Post subject: Re: Custom EFi kit using Honda ECU |
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I don't see an O2 sensor, what do you control fuel with? Did you remap the cold start fuel to allow for the oil not heating up as quickly as coolant does?
Not to rag on your project, I think it's a great idea, but why use that POS distributor? I can swap those out in under 10 minutes after changing dozens of them. The ignitors fail constantly in these things.
brad |
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Dale M. Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20379 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Custom EFi kit using Honda ECU |
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Great project...
But going to crank fire and Megasquirt would have been a whole lot simpler and probably less expensive... And the path has been cleared by hundreds that have gone before you...
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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Pinnacle Tuning Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2016 Posts: 9 Location: Long Island, NY
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: Custom EFi kit using Honda ECU |
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slalombuggy wrote: |
I don't see an O2 sensor, what do you control fuel with? Did you remap the cold start fuel to allow for the oil not heating up as quickly as coolant does?
Not to rag on your project, I think it's a great idea, but why use that POS distributor? I can swap those out in under 10 minutes after changing dozens of them. The ignitors fail constantly in these things.
brad |
If you look in the last picture there it is under the fan. Right on the merge collector. I use An Innovative wideband/flex fuel sensor.
The ecu has its own maps for cold start and cranking while it is under a certain temp. That's all done before the dyno. Being on e85 it it is important that it has that adjusted correctly.
I use OEM Honda distributor because I use an OEM Honda ecu. They work fine for the type of power these motors are making. I haven't have an igniter gone bad on me in a long time. Not to say that it's not possible but they last just as long as any OEM part. This system is very economical and does just as much if not more then most aftermarket ecu with the benefit of being able to pick parts if they go bad at any local parts store.
Thanks again for the comments. 👌 |
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mcmscott Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2010 Posts: 4856 Location: sanger ca
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:34 pm Post subject: Re: Custom EFi kit using Honda ECU |
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Who mounted the breather box? Some one who doesn't understand gravity? _________________ There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,
68 Ghia
67 T-1
65 Notch
02 Mexican beetle
74 Thing
15 Long travel rail
07 Nomad
05 f-250 |
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Chip Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2008 Posts: 969 Location: Utah
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:51 pm Post subject: Re: Custom EFi kit using Honda ECU |
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I had at one point considered doing very similar, using Hondata or similar. Nice to see someone else thinking along the same lines. My biggest hangup was always the ignition. Looks like you solved that one. Well done! I did end up buying an AEM 30-1050 a few years ago, didnt end up going that route in the end either. Might use it on a run stand or something one of these days. |
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Pinnacle Tuning Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2016 Posts: 9 Location: Long Island, NY
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: Custom EFi kit using Honda ECU |
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mcmscott wrote: |
Who mounted the breather box? Some one who doesn't understand gravity? |
Someone who wasn't me. |
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clonebug Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2005 Posts: 4027 Location: NW Washington
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:48 pm Post subject: Re: Custom EFi kit using Honda ECU |
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Pinnacle Tuning wrote: |
mcmscott wrote: |
Who mounted the breather box? Some one who doesn't understand gravity? |
Someone who wasn't me. |
Nice work but it always comes down to price......How much would it cost??? _________________
vwracerdave wrote: |
Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see. |
Paul.H wrote: |
That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month |
My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936 |
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Pinnacle Tuning Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2016 Posts: 9 Location: Long Island, NY
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Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 3:42 pm Post subject: Re: Custom EFi kit using Honda ECU |
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clonebug wrote: |
Pinnacle Tuning wrote: |
mcmscott wrote: |
Who mounted the breather box? Some one who doesn't understand gravity? |
Someone who wasn't me. |
Nice work but it always comes down to price......How much would it cost??? |
It's more economical then going megasquirt |
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Pinnacle Tuning Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2016 Posts: 9 Location: Long Island, NY
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Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 3:44 pm Post subject: Re: Custom EFi kit using Honda ECU |
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Chip B. wrote: |
I had at one point considered doing very similar, using Hondata or similar. Nice to see someone else thinking along the same lines. My biggest hangup was always the ignition. Looks like you solved that one. Well done! I did end up buying an AEM 30-1050 a few years ago, didnt end up going that route in the end either. Might use it on a run stand or something one of these days. |
You can still run it I have plenty vw to Honda adaptors. |
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gprudenciop Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008 Posts: 606 Location: portland or
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Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:01 pm Post subject: Re: Custom EFi kit using Honda ECU |
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Pinnacle Tuning wrote: |
clonebug wrote: |
Pinnacle Tuning wrote: |
mcmscott wrote: |
Who mounted the breather box? Some one who doesn't understand gravity? |
Someone who wasn't me. |
Nice work but it always comes down to price......How much would it cost??? |
It's more economical then going megasquirt |
so you need the software,ecu,distributor,coils and someone to modify the ecu, make harness and modify distributor and install then tune correct? and you can do all this for$$? _________________ Never look down at anybody unless you are helping them up..
Loaning someone your strength instead of reminding them of their weakness = kindness.. |
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Chip Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2008 Posts: 969 Location: Utah
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Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 9:24 pm Post subject: Re: Custom EFi kit using Honda ECU |
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Pinnacle Tuning wrote: |
Chip B. wrote: |
I had at one point considered doing very similar, using Hondata or similar. Nice to see someone else thinking along the same lines. My biggest hangup was always the ignition. Looks like you solved that one. Well done! I did end up buying an AEM 30-1050 a few years ago, didnt end up going that route in the end either. Might use it on a run stand or something one of these days. |
You can still run it I have plenty vw to Honda adaptors. |
The AEM will let me do whatever I want ignition wise. It's just not as capable as my MS3-Pro. Thus the run stand plan. It will make for a simple way to break in my efi motors without having to come up with a way to install carbs, and stock ignition components. |
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Pinnacle Tuning Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2016 Posts: 9 Location: Long Island, NY
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Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:21 am Post subject: Re: Custom EFi kit using Honda ECU |
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gprudenciop wrote: |
Pinnacle Tuning wrote: |
clonebug wrote: |
Pinnacle Tuning wrote: |
mcmscott wrote: |
Who mounted the breather box? Some one who doesn't understand gravity? |
Someone who wasn't me. |
Nice work but it always comes down to price......How much would it cost??? |
It's more economical then going megasquirt |
so you need the software,ecu,distributor,coils and someone to modify the ecu, make harness and modify distributor and install then tune correct? and you can do all this for$$? |
Software- if you go with freeware it's free if you go with Neptune then it's usually 50 to 150 depending on how many outputs you want
You need a 92 to 95 ecu. Any four cylinder.
The distributor has the coil inside of it so just the distributor.
Distributor adaptor
Used harness- 88 to 2000 will work
Basemap-I can send you over an email
Also you don't need a crack or cam trigger wheel, remember the distributor has everything inside of it. The trigger for cam and crank are internal.
Usually I charge anyware from 150 to 1500 depending on how crazy you want to go(boost control, e85, Nitrous control, etc etc) |
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Pinnacle Tuning Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2016 Posts: 9 Location: Long Island, NY
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Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:22 am Post subject: Re: Custom EFi kit using Honda ECU |
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Chip B. wrote: |
Pinnacle Tuning wrote: |
Chip B. wrote: |
I had at one point considered doing very similar, using Hondata or similar. Nice to see someone else thinking along the same lines. My biggest hangup was always the ignition. Looks like you solved that one. Well done! I did end up buying an AEM 30-1050 a few years ago, didnt end up going that route in the end either. Might use it on a run stand or something one of these days. |
You can still run it I have plenty vw to Honda adaptors. |
The AEM will let me do whatever I want ignition wise. It's just not as capable as my MS3-Pro. Thus the run stand plan. It will make for a simple way to break in my efi motors without having to come up with a way to install carbs, and stock ignition components. |
Well if you need any help with coming up with a system, I'm always down to help... |
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Chip Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2008 Posts: 969 Location: Utah
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Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:15 pm Post subject: Re: Custom EFi kit using Honda ECU |
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Pinnacle Tuning wrote: |
Chip B. wrote: |
Pinnacle Tuning wrote: |
Chip B. wrote: |
I had at one point considered doing very similar, using Hondata or similar. Nice to see someone else thinking along the same lines. My biggest hangup was always the ignition. Looks like you solved that one. Well done! I did end up buying an AEM 30-1050 a few years ago, didnt end up going that route in the end either. Might use it on a run stand or something one of these days. |
You can still run it I have plenty vw to Honda adaptors. |
The AEM will let me do whatever I want ignition wise. It's just not as capable as my MS3-Pro. Thus the run stand plan. It will make for a simple way to break in my efi motors without having to come up with a way to install carbs, and stock ignition components. |
Well if you need any help with coming up with a system, I'm always down to help... |
Much appreciated! Not too worried on this end. Biggest challenge for me is finding space for the stand. The FI stuff is pretty straight forward. |
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Gavey Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2016 Posts: 1 Location: Cincinnati
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Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:40 am Post subject: Re: Custom EFi kit using Honda ECU |
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What is the price on your adapter for the Honda distributor |
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