worn synchros, what do i look for?

[Matthew Tolbert]

I have my transaxle apart and plan to try and do some repairs myself. first thing is what do worn synchros look like? any pics you might have would help.
_________________
Matthew Tolbert
1958 ragtop
1961 doublecab
1965 Notchback S

[mcmscott]

Measure the stand off, that will tell if good or not. I usually use a lower stand off # for a race box due to it is not going 1000k miles and it is lower rolling resistance. Typically around .035"
_________________
There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,

68 Ghia
67 T-1
65 Notch
02 Mexican beetle
74 Thing
15 Long travel rail
07 Nomad
05 f-250

[Bruce]

[Casting Timmy]

Here is a thread that will help out

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7901068

[Matthew Tolbert]

Thanks for the tips so far. I'm sure there will be more questions to come
_________________
Matthew Tolbert
1958 ragtop
1961 doublecab
1965 Notchback S

[modok]

It's not a bad question, I was surprised myself how simple it is.
If the syncro is a good fit on it's cone then it will work well, and the amount of gap is easy to measure. All of the cars out there that don't shift right......you'd think it would be more complex, but it isn't.

[mcmscott]

Left synchro bad, right synchro good
_________________
There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,

68 Ghia
67 T-1
65 Notch
02 Mexican beetle
74 Thing
15 Long travel rail
07 Nomad
05 f-250

[Matthew Tolbert]

Here are all of mine with measurements

1st gear gap is .039"

2nd gear gap is .046"

3rd gear gap is .045"

4th gear gap is .035"

_________________
Matthew Tolbert
1958 ragtop
1961 doublecab
1965 Notchback S

[mcmscott]

Pics are decieving, but 4th gear "looks" to be ok. Have you measured the stand off with light even pressure against them?
_________________
There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,

68 Ghia
67 T-1
65 Notch
02 Mexican beetle
74 Thing
15 Long travel rail
07 Nomad
05 f-250

[modok]

yeah, Why can't you just measure the gap?

[Matthew Tolbert]

I edited my last post to add the gap measurements. It seems mine have seen better days so the next question is what syncros are available for a 1965 type III 6 volt transaxle? My 1st gear synchro ID is smaller than the rest. 2nd, 3rd and 4th all look identical to me. Am I correct in thinking I can get new ones for 2,3 and 4 but would have to find a good used or NOS for 1st to keep from having to swap to later gears?
_________________
Matthew Tolbert
1958 ragtop
1961 doublecab
1965 Notchback S

[esde]

that first synchro is not easy to find, but it is available. Not cheap, but available. Check the classifieds, and message me if you come up empty.
_________________
modok wrote:
Bent cranks are silent but gather no moss. I mean, ah, something like that.

[Matthew Tolbert]

That's what I figured. Are the other 3 available new? I will be on the look out for the 1st gear one. Does anyone have the part# so I can be searching for it? And Esde I will definitely be in touch if I can't find one.

Now my next question is regarding the slider. When I took it apart the round spring wasn't installed like I think it should have been although all of the springs on both sliders were the same way.

How I found them

How I think they should be

_________________
Matthew Tolbert
1958 ragtop
1961 doublecab
1965 Notchback S

[modok]

second and fourth are within new limits, if you have measured right.

Switch fourth and third.....ta da!, fixed (well, ok not perfect but better at least)
You should be able to get parts from shops who rebuild these.
I have no idea of the quality or fit of what's on the market for new, so I'd ask a pro, or better yet walk in with your gears in hand.

[Matthew Tolbert]

I will measure again to be sure and will also swap them around to see what happens.
_________________
Matthew Tolbert
1958 ragtop
1961 doublecab
1965 Notchback S

[Casting Timmy]

Your third and fourth gear labels on wrong on your pictures.

You can still get VW new 3rd and 4th synchros from Weddle, but they are drying up and soon you will only be able to do Brazilian120's for new.

Personally I don't know what you're building for, but if it's a cruiser or low mileage play toy I would go with swithing them around on 3 and 4, switch cones if you need to as well.

3rd is the easy one to press off, or some use a bench method. That 4th you can do with the V in the standard press blocks that come with presses.

The spring clips should touch all three keys, and the gap should be offset side to side. Look the 1-2 clips over for wear on the keys cutting into them, sometimes it's a mild rub and other times they are found to have some heavy flats into them.

I tooth brush clean the insde of the slider to geta good feel out of it. The slider has a 3rd gear and 4th gear side, the same as the clutch hub.

I don't know the early synchro pattern off the top of my head, I'm more into the IRS years. Personally if you're not looking for brand new mileage I would take the .001" less and stay with the VW synchro.

What car and motor are you building this for?

[Matthew Tolbert]

It is a 65 notchback with a mild 1776. I drove it a lot and have been shifting it slow and easy pausing between gears for quite a while. If I tried to shift at a normal speed without pausing it would grind. It never jumped out of gear and felt like it engaged all the gears well I just had to do it slowly.
_________________
Matthew Tolbert
1958 ragtop
1961 doublecab
1965 Notchback S

[mcmscott]

First gear should use 113 311 247A, 2-4 would be 113 311 295D. You are far better off to use later 1-2 idlers, clutch hub and associated parts then use 113 311 269B synchros for 1-2
_________________
There are no stupid questions, only stupid people,

68 Ghia
67 T-1
65 Notch
02 Mexican beetle
74 Thing
15 Long travel rail
07 Nomad
05 f-250

[mark tucker]

I have a odd ball new syncro in my stash. I dont have a clue as to what it fits.it sits about 1/4" off a 3&4th cone. I got it with a old dealer buyout lot. it dose have the remanants of the made in west germany stamp on it(the 3rd&4th's I have also have that stamp but no part number) how do I tell what it fits? is it what he needs?

[Casting Timmy]