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kerian159 Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2008 Posts: 344 Location: Pensacola, FL
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:18 pm Post subject: Carb question |
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I'm looking at replacing my Weber Progressive with a Empi 34 dual kit from CIP1 anybody on here using this kit and if they are how do you like it? Tech specs on my bus: 2 liter solid lifter engine with automatic transmission.
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C13-47-7412 _________________ 1976 Type II Westy P22
"Growing older, but not up!" |
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a-marshal Samba Member
Joined: March 21, 2009 Posts: 270 Location: Toronto
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:27 pm Post subject: Re: Carb question |
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I too am thinking about new carbs, I've got no comment on these carbs but I do wonder why the website is so vehement about them being sold for off road use only ...
<Quote>
NOTE: ALL EMPI CARBURETOR KITS ARE SOLD FOR OFF-ROAD USE ONLY. Special note about carburetors: ( they are non returnable! )
<end quote>
reading that would sure make me think twice. _________________ -Ob. vehicle info....
1973 Westy w/ '74 1.8 liter / PDSI (type3?) carbs / 009 distributor / pertronix |
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kerian159 Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2008 Posts: 344 Location: Pensacola, FL
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:27 pm Post subject: Re: Carb question |
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to stay "Legal" in California _________________ 1976 Type II Westy P22
"Growing older, but not up!" |
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borninabus Samba R&D Dept.
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 4536 Location: Arizona Highways
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: Carb question |
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if you're going to all the trouble of installing dual carbs, 40HPMXs would be a better choice, IMO. _________________ 88 Van WBX, A/T - 13 JSW TDI 6M/T - 2012 Touareg TDI Sport |
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kerian159 Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2008 Posts: 344 Location: Pensacola, FL
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: Carb question |
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they would be except the price point. Also with my transmission being an automatic i'm not entirely sure that the extra power given by 40's would really be worth the extra $ _________________ 1976 Type II Westy P22
"Growing older, but not up!" |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16961 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: Carb question |
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Before I start hammering you on EMPI quality I want to make a point about installing aftermarket dual carbs. I've done it several times now in VW buses. New dual carb kits from CIP1 or "almost" any other vendor won't run right out of the box unless you get real lucky. Carbs have changeable jets of various types for different displacement engines. You'll drive yourself nuts trying to get the jetting right. In addition to jetting, new carbs right out of the box need to be torn down and cleaned and then the float heights correctly set. So you can see that all this can take hours of your time plus the trouble of removing and installing the carbs numerous times.
What's works better is to buy your carb kit from a vendor that can do this for you. They typically charge an extra $80 or so and you tell them what engine you have and they install the correct jets for your application as well as doing the cleaning and float adjustment. Money well spent.
Try Blackline Racing, Aircooled.net, DRD Racing Heads, or maybe even Kaddie Shack. Best to have this done by a professional who works on dozens of carburetors every week.
Next, don't forget the linkage. Crappy linkage will make owning dual carbs a nightmare. Getting the carbs synched is one thing but having them stay in synch means having good quality linkage.
Lastly, EMPI sucks. I suggest you wait a bit longer and buy better carbs when you can afford it. You'll thank me later.
_________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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kerian159 Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2008 Posts: 344 Location: Pensacola, FL
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: Carb question |
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Thanks for the tips and yes I do understand about straight out of the box not running right and possibly needing to be rejetted. As far as EMPI sucks yes they do but do they suck worse than a progressive carb? _________________ 1976 Type II Westy P22
"Growing older, but not up!" |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16961 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:57 pm Post subject: Re: Carb question |
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_________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16961 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:01 pm Post subject: Re: Carb question |
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do they suck worse than a progressive carb?
Probably not but I see CIP1 sells the EMPI carbs for just $120 less than genuine Spanish Webers that come with CB linkage from Aircooled.net _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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kerian159 Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2008 Posts: 344 Location: Pensacola, FL
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: Carb question |
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I had forgotten aircooled sold carbs. looking at them now. _________________ 1976 Type II Westy P22
"Growing older, but not up!" |
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Randy in Maine Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003 Posts: 34890 Location: The Beach
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 2:34 pm Post subject: Re: Carb question |
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aeromech wrote: |
do they suck worse than a progressive carb?
Probably not but I see CIP1 sells the EMPI carbs for just $120 less than genuine Spanish Webers that come with CB linkage from Aircooled.net |
I don't mean to sidetrack this, but is the CB linkage one of the better ones? someone is asking me and I don' t know. |
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aeromech Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 16961 Location: San Diego, California
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Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: Carb question |
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Randy in Maine wrote: |
aeromech wrote: |
do they suck worse than a progressive carb?
Probably not but I see CIP1 sells the EMPI carbs for just $120 less than genuine Spanish Webers that come with CB linkage from Aircooled.net |
I don't mean to sidetrack this, but is the CB linkage one of the better ones? someone is asking me and I don' t know. |
I've used "Redline" linkage and "CB" linkage. I would never use RL again. That said, I'm sure there are much better ones available. The cable system is great I think but costs something like $300 alone from what I remember but I don't have any personal experience with it myself. _________________ Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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Steve22 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2004 Posts: 1389 Location: the wild unknown
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Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:26 am Post subject: Re: Carb question |
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I have the 34's from CIP1, the carbs were good quality, didn't have any flash or dirt in them. I did need to rejet them for my 1700. The manifolds on the other hand are crap, I reused a stock set I had on hand. _________________ '65 Karmann Ghia 'vert
'73 Super Beetle
'59 Beetle ragtop
'73 Sunroof Transporter |
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kerian159 Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2008 Posts: 344 Location: Pensacola, FL
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Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:54 am Post subject: Re: Carb question |
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what did you use for your jets? _________________ 1976 Type II Westy P22
"Growing older, but not up!" |
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Steve22 Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2004 Posts: 1389 Location: the wild unknown
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Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:56 am Post subject: Re: Carb question |
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kerian159 wrote: |
what did you use for your jets? |
I'll have to look at my notes when I get home. _________________ '65 Karmann Ghia 'vert
'73 Super Beetle
'59 Beetle ragtop
'73 Sunroof Transporter |
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udidwht Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005 Posts: 3779 Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:43 am Post subject: Re: Carb question |
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The latest version HPMX's are actually very good. They however need to be cleaned and float height/drop checked before installing. _________________ 1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires |
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Amskeptic Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2002 Posts: 8568 Location: All Across The Country
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:54 pm Post subject: Re: Carb question |
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kerian159 wrote: |
Thanks for the tips and yes I do understand about straight out of the box not running right and possibly needing to be rejetted. As far as EMPI sucks yes they do but do they suck worse than a progressive carb? |
Please make sure whatever option you exercise knows how to flow air with enough velocity at idle.
Big honking four-throats on a little VW engine spells t-r-o-u-b-l-e with an automatic transmission. That factory fuel injection with the automatic transmission idle stablizer valve, now yer talking.
Colin _________________ www.itinerant-air-cooled.com |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 1:05 pm Post subject: Re: Carb question |
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Amskeptic wrote: |
kerian159 wrote: |
Thanks for the tips and yes I do understand about straight out of the box not running right and possibly needing to be rejetted. As far as EMPI sucks yes they do but do they suck worse than a progressive carb? |
Please make sure whatever option you exercise knows how to flow air with enough velocity at idle.
Big honking four-throats on a little VW engine spells t-r-o-u-b-l-e with an automatic transmission. That factory fuel injection with the automatic transmission idle stablizer valve, now yer talking.
Colin |
I wouldn't worry about it. Just crank the idle up to 1500 - 1700 RPM to keep those carbs and cam happy, two feet on the brakes at the stop light and you don't even need to give it gas to go - just lift your feet off the brakes. You'll keep your trans rebuilder happy too seeing him so often to replace the bands. _________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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kerian159 Samba Member
Joined: February 24, 2008 Posts: 344 Location: Pensacola, FL
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:44 pm Post subject: Re: Carb question |
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I've shifted my focus a bit on set my sights on a set of Baby Del's jetted correctly (hopefully) and tuned, so nothing too big is going on it. I already know that my bus doesn't like to go above 65 mph unless it absolutely needs to . _________________ 1976 Type II Westy P22
"Growing older, but not up!" |
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Danwvw Samba Member
Joined: July 31, 2012 Posts: 8892 Location: Oregon Coast
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: Carb question |
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I too have considered running the old FRD carbs but there must me something better. Surely the HPMX would be better. But I would be interested to know how those little 34's worked. _________________ 1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths! |
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