Rebuilt 1965 40hp with 30 miles on it runs like crap!

[fl59bug]

The engine sputters and balks and has no power. The exhaust tips are black with soot which tells me it is running way too rich. Even with only a 40hp engine I think it should move out much better than it does. The car is light and doesn't need too much power. Heck I can grab the rear bumper and slide it sideways in my garage lol.

My obvious first suspicion is on too much fuel/not enough spark, but first let me give the break-down of what all was done to the engine and what is new to it, in the hopes that some of you can help me get this piggy to use as many of its 40 horses as possible to get me down the road!

New P/C from WW, new cam, lifters, oil pump, heads have new valves, springs, retainers and keepers. Case was align-bored, case-savered, crank reground, rods rebushed, flywheel ground. Exhaust is stock for 1965, including fresh-air heater boxes. Heads are square boss 1965 heads, ie the "good" ones.

Carb is an Empi 30-pict-1 and has less than 500 miles on it. The jet in it is a 120 main. I have not validated which size air correction jet it has but can do so if I should.

I've tried both the .009 and 90mm vacuum-advance distributor, and timed the .009 to about 28 degrees total advance, and the 90mm "fat cap" at 10 degrees BTDC static, and really notice no difference between them.

I am using an old-ish Bosch blue coil, NGK plugs and questionable plug wires that I had laying around. The ignition components including coil, plug wires, dist. cap, rotor, points condenser and plugs are next. I pulled the first set of plugs I had and they too were black with soot so I replaced them with the current NGK plugs which were quickly blackened as well

When I first fired up the rebuilt engine I "ran it in" as recommended for 15-20 mins at about 2000 rpm. I did a compression test on the motor when it had around 15 miles on it and all cylinders were around 118 psi. One thing I did not do when assembling the motor was cc the heads, as there are not readily available cc kits for a 40 hp engine. Everything out there only covers 85.5mm and up.

Thanks for enduring this long post, and does anyone have any suggestions of how I can get more spark into this thing and cure the over-rich condition? Is that ALL that is holding the motor back or are there other things I should check?

many thanks everyone - Ted

[andk5591]

Sorry if this is too obvious....Choke closed? Assume you did the idle mix adjustment and checked for vacuum leaks.
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[fl59bug]

Those are good questions!

The choke has been disconnected and wired open, ie the butterfly valve is always nearly vertical up and down. I assume that would "lean out" the mixture, right? I used to have the choke operational but I quickly decided that made the rich-running even worse.

For the idle, the idle screw always sits on the lowest point of the stepped "cam" on the side of the 30-PICT-1. I don't have an rpm measuring device but the engine "purs" at idle. I'm guessing idle is within spec ie 800-850 rpms. The car just doesn't want to take off and get up to speed when I give it gas. The exhaust tips look like a coal mine!

Also, I did check that there is at least some vacuum advance happening with both the .009 and 90mm OE distributors. I verified the 28 degrees total advance on the .009 using my timing gun and by sucking on the vacuum line to the 90mm dist as per John Muir's book.

I sprayed WD-40 around the carb-intake and intake to head joints, and did not notice any rpm increase/decrease so I hope I'm good as far as no vacuum leaks.

Thanks for the great questions, any other feedback/suggestions of things to check?

[Cusser]

Re-check valve adjustment, check and re-check spark plug wire orientation, check points, timing, check for vacuum leaks. If the carburetor ran fine on the engine before the rebuild, not likely that anything in that could go bad so quickly; but maybe take out the main and pilot jets and clean them.

Most likely the issue is NOT inside your longblock, about the only potential screwups that could do this would be incorrect alignment of the camshaft, or distributor drive gear (if not corrected for).
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297

[Mos6502]

The exhaust may be black, but what do the plugs look like? Are they black too? I don't know why people never look at their plugs.

[Sharp64]

Can't bad plug wires cause some of the lousy acceleration issues?
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine

[fl59bug]

Checked the plugs early on, first set (Bosch) were coal black, replaced those with the current NGK which I checked soon thereafter and saw them being sooted as well.

I think I've established that it is running overly rich, but I'm skeptical that replacing the ignition coil will correct this. I've attempted to verify the spark from the secondary (high voltage) side of the coil and IIRC it was yellow, which is a sign of an aging, but not yet done for, coil.

Is the 120 main on the carb too big and/or could it be that my air correction jet is too small? I haven't checked that one yet, but it should have whatever the Empi 30-pict-1 comes with standard.

[fl59bug]

Also, valve lash is set at .006. I check the plug wire ordering and it is good to go.

It could be that one or more of the plug wires is of the wrong type or just bad altogether.

I can't recall when/where I purchased those and so I'll go ahead and replace those and see what that gets me.

Thanks everyone for the replies so far, keep 'em coming!

[Cusser]

I doubt that it's coil-related, agree that mixture being rich is a clue.

What kind of air cleaner do you use, and when was it last cleaned? A restricted air intake makes the mixture richer.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297

[fl59bug]

I hadn't thought about that. I'm using the [stock?] oil bath air cleaner, but the flap on the end of it with the counterweight is missing/broken, and I'm missing the clip for my preheater hose so that is not connected to the end of the air cleaner either.

I just did my first oil changes (at 25 miles) and at that time I rechecked the valves (.006) and changed the oil in the filter. I wonder if running one of those low profile paper/mesh filters will help?

[hazetguy]

[fl59bug]

Ok I'll check them for 1) continuity and 2) resistance.

I don't have any guidance on what ohm-age I'm looking for. Would a good reading be < 5 ohms? As long as none of them are an open-circuit that is good.

Also, let me know and I can post up some pictures of the engine, but I've tried where possible to ensure it is year-correct for a 1965.

thanks

[fl59bug]

All plug wires show around 1000 ohms (1K ohm). The high tension wire from the coil to the center distributer connection shows 2.5 k ohm. Do all of these measurements check out?

[mukluk]

Are you running short or long rocker arm studs?

What size idle jet is installed? Have you adjusted the mixture screw on the left side of the carb? Have you measured your fuel pressure? Have you checked that the carb float is actually floating and that the float needle valve is working as it should?
_________________
1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga"

[hazetguy]

[tasb]

Your carburetor/distributor combinations are a mismatch. The 009 generally performs ok with a 30 PICT carburetor but the Empi carburetor is not the best choice and the 009 was not designed to run in an automobile. While a "big cap" distributor is stock for a 40 hp engine you are not running a stock 40 hp carburetor. The carburetor you need to match up with the large cast iron distributor that you have is a 28 PICT series.
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Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018

1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc

1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse

[fl59bug]

Motor and NGK br6hs plugs in the order they were removed from the engine:

[fl59bug]

plugs have about 20 miles on them

[type241]

Almost anytime I hear rich condition I suspect too much fuel pressure(2.5 psi max). The brass colored top non-rebuidable fuel pumps put out way too much pressure I have found. I don't even keep them around. If you can get an original pump with an aftermarket rebuild kit DONT USE THE SPRING in the kit. REUSE your original spring and only use the new diaphragm.

[fl59bug]