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Split 66'
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

electronictofu wrote:
Do yours have a beveled lip on them to hold that outter washer on?


Yes, those caps in the post above are what I have. I've never seen the caps you are using. It's messing with my head how the spacer and seals would ride on the hub of the spinning drum, seems like it would be hard on the small o-ring in there.

The aftermarket caps that I have seen for sale, have the outer rim on them too, that requires the flat washer to hold it all together.

electronictofu wrote:

So, maybe smack the driver side in so it fully seats? Im just nervous to slam on it.


In looking at the pic below, it looks like the spacer is what the drum would be bumping up against. If that spacer were to sit flush against the main seal, would the drum seat entirely?

electronictofu wrote:

Driver Side:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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electronictofu
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Split 66'"]
electronictofu wrote:
Do yours have a beveled lip on them to hold that outter washer on?


Yes, those caps in the post above are what I have. I've never seen the caps you are using. It's messing with my head how the spacer and seals would ride on the hub of the spinning drum, seems like it would be hard on the small o-ring in there.

The aftermarket caps that I have seen for sale, have the outer rim on them too, that requires the flat washer to hold it all together.

electronictofu wrote:

So, maybe smack the driver side in so it fully seats? Im just nervous to slam on it.


In looking at the pic below, it looks like the spacer is what the drum would be bumping up against. If that spacer were to sit flush against the main seal, would the drum seat entirely?

I'd like to know, I wish I did. This is my first try at this. But the caps you have are the ones I originally wanted with the lip. I guess those are the type 3 style? I may try to source a set of those, I'd feel better about it. Unless someone else chimes in that has the ones I do.

I think it was this thread several months ago when I put this stuff together, someone recommended it the way it is. I may have been mistaken though.
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electronictofu
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So type one long axles, and axle tubes.
Type 3 Drums and brakes.

This is a Type 3 Axle cover:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1646135

This is a "68 ONLY" I didn't know they were specific only for that year.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1674765


Run a type 3 axle cover, or type 1 to match the axles themselves? Toughy...
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Split 66'
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

electronictofu wrote:
So type one long axles, and axle tubes.
Type 3 Drums and brakes.

This is a Type 3 Axle cover:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1646135

This is a "68 ONLY" I didn't know they were specific only for that year.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1674765


Run a type 3 axle cover, or type 1 to match the axles themselves? Toughy...


I used the instructions from Bus Boys, they say to use bearing covers from a 61-66 Bug:
http://www.bus-boys.com/instruct-swing-pg1.htm

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


These don't have the A in the part number that the T3's do.

When I bought my backing plates and drums, I received the T3 '68 bearing caps with them, the caps did not work, to shallow IIRC. I had to use the bug ones, above.

Bus Boys may have some 61-66 bug caps for sale.
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D-train
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

heres a new look on lowering buses for everyone too..

http://www.imoos.info/FreshKustoms/product-category/type-2/

click on the type2 one to see the plates
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electronictofu
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Split 66' wrote:
electronictofu wrote:
So type one long axles, and axle tubes.
Type 3 Drums and brakes.

This is a Type 3 Axle cover:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1646135

This is a "68 ONLY" I didn't know they were specific only for that year.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1674765


Run a type 3 axle cover, or type 1 to match the axles themselves? Toughy...


I used the instructions from Bus Boys, they say to use bearing covers from a 61-66 Bug:
http://www.bus-boys.com/instruct-swing-pg1.htm

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


These don't have the A in the part number that the T3's do.

When I bought my backing plates and drums, I received the T3 '68 bearing caps with them, the caps did not work, to shallow IIRC. I had to use the bug ones, above.

Bus Boys may have some 61-66 bug caps for sale.


Awesome. I'll look for the style with the step and no "A" in the part. To verify, this is type 3 breaks, and type 1 68' long axles? So many mixed parts Smile Want to make sure it's good...
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Split 66'
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

electronictofu wrote:

Awesome. I'll look for the style with the step and no "A" in the part. To verify, this is type 3 breaks, and type 1 68' long axles? So many mixed parts Smile Want to make sure it's good...


I have '68 T3 backing plates, with '68 bug long-spline long-axles, and Bus Boys axle tubes, which are just bug axle tubes lengthened. The lengthened tubes from Bus Boys may require a different cap than you would.

It might be a good idea to call the place you got your offset spring plates from and ask them about the bearing cap you would need. I'd hate to steer you in the wrong direction. I would guess the Bug caps are what you need though.
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electronictofu
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Split 66' wrote:
electronictofu wrote:

Awesome. I'll look for the style with the step and no "A" in the part. To verify, this is type 3 breaks, and type 1 68' long axles? So many mixed parts Smile Want to make sure it's good...


I have '68 T3 backing plates, with '68 bug long-spline long-axles, and Bus Boys axle tubes, which are just bug axle tubes lengthened. The lengthened tubes from Bus Boys may require a different cap than you would.

It might be a good idea to call the place you got your offset spring plates from and ask them about the bearing cap you would need. I'd hate to steer you in the wrong direction. I would guess the Bug caps are what you need though.


Good call, I sent aaron from wide five an email. Thanks. Hope to have it figured out in the next day or two.
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electronictofu
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:37 pm    Post subject: Rear brake line advice Reply with quote

This is just a rough mock up. I haven't tried the scissor jack method yet, but usually I need to drop the axle housing from the spring plate, and take the screws off the e-brake cable to get my tire off. Before I do my brake-bleed I want to make sure it's somewhat easy to do in the future. I had a longer brake line that will give it some play when changing tires or brakes. Too much brake line play?

65' Bus, type 1 long axles/ type 3 brakes.

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kingodirtp3
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have flipped spindles on my bus now at the max height. I wanted to bring it up a little more so I got stock spindles and switched them out. adjustable beam. the stock spindles pushed the wheels out about 10-12mm, which means flipped spindles narrow the front around 3/4 to 1inch. I measured it, saw it with my own eyes, and have new tire rubbing marks at the outer edge of the dogleg to go with it. I ended up putting the flipped spindles back on.
has anyone else experienced this?
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Kiwinw
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:05 am    Post subject: What brake drums are these? 68 Beetle tranny Reply with quote

I have a new to me bus (66 that seems to be stock or close to it) that came with a few additional parts. I'm new at this, so perhaps I just missed some of the obvious know factor while searching through all the threads, but I am a little lost on a few things. If you can answer any or all of my questions, that would be super helpful.

I need some clarification on changing out my transaxle to a 68 beetle straight axel. The current transmission in the bus is slipping, and the bus came with the spare 68 beetle trans. I mainly want to do this to eliminate the RBG's and perhaps get some better gearing. I understand how to do the front lower with flipped spindles, and that I need offset spring plates in the back etc to make this work. Seems the cost will be about the same as getting the current transmission rebuilt if I kept it stock.

Questions:

1. Will I get better gearing with the 68 transaxle, and will my 1500 (could be 1600 - can't tell) engine be able to push it ok? How can I tell if the engine is 1600?

2. I understand I can use either Thing brake drums, or earlier than 64 bus drums with some machining. Can I also use the type 3 brake drums? It sounds like thing drums will have bad breaking and stick out further?

3. Can I use the same inner brake parts I have now, or do I have to buy it all? I see drums on So Cal imports. Am I looking for the Thing Drums they have for sale (are the italian cheaper ones ok?).

4. I actually have drums on the 68 donor transaxle, and they are 5 hole and seem to match a wheel when I hold it up, but the lug nut holes are smaller. What drums could they be (see photo), and do Thing drums or early bus or Type 3 have smaller diameter thread on the wide 5 holes?

I do not want to go too low and hit things, what is the smallest amount I can drop the bus using this set up? Is it 3" based on the flipped spindles up front? I see most people reference slammed buses, and not too much on just getting rid of the RGB's and keeping a closer to normal look.

Wheels / Tires:

1. I have either 14" stock wheels, or 15" aftermarket (both wide 5 bolt) that I can use. Is there an advantage to using the 15" other than look?

2. Can I use standard sized tires on the 14" rims to be able to go back to normal if I want (seems so many people try tires and switch until they are set. I do not have the money to go through that process!

3. I want to ensure I can easily get the rear wheels on and off, and have the same tires all around for better rotation.

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kingodirtp3
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Questions:

1. Will I get better gearing with the 68 transaxle, and will my 1500 (could be 1600 - can't tell) engine be able to push it ok? How can I tell if the engine is 1600?

a stock 1600 will work ok, but itll be working hard without the reduction boxes, step up to a 1776 (90.5a pistons) or better 1955cc (90.5b pistons, 5.5 hbeam rods, 76mm stroker crank, still stock width and very little clearancing, lots more torque n power) also if you don't plan to go over 5000 rpms then stay singleport. singleports have more torque down low where a bus really needs it. the best carbs for singlports are kadrons, but with any dual carbs on singleports the fan shroud on the drivers side will have to be dented in to clear the accelerator pump linkage. I got a very nice scat 36hp shroud to solve that problem. also balance everything, full flow the case, thinline sump, around engle 100 cam, and petronix. nice 1 3/8ths header with hideaway turbo muffler will give the best performance and ground clearance, though A1 makes a sidewinder that costs 3x as much that is the best at clearance and power. I finally got the sidewinder for mine and I love it. but if you not going to up the piston size and keep it 1600 then you'll be stuck with the 1 3/8ths header and hideaway since the sidewinder starts at 1.5in tubing. please no empi 4tip exhaust, they make the engine run hotter, restrict exhaust flow worse that stock. some love the sound but its seems so wrong to choke the shit out of the engine just for the sound.

2. I understand I can use either Thing brake drums, or earlier than 64 bus drums with some machining. Can I also use the type 3 brake drums? It sounds like thing drums will have bad breaking and stick out further?

type 3 and type2 and thing brake drums are the same width, type 3 and t2 brake pads are the same size, thing pads are smaller. you'll need type3 brake assemblies including the backing plates, axles, tubes, bearing covers, gotta be long spline long axles to work with offset springplates. you'll also need the springplate bolts from the type 3, t2 wont work. the easiest and cheapest way is to get a complete 68 type 3 rear end drum to drum, then switch the nose cones and bolt it all up with the offset springplates. doing the ebrake and putting the backing plates upside down and rebending the stock brake lines will be the only thing different from what the book says.

3. Can I use the same inner brake parts I have now, or do I have to buy it all? I see drums on So Cal imports. Am I looking for the Thing Drums they have for sale (are the italian cheaper ones ok?).

with stock rims get 4 lug type3 drums and brake assemblies, then use a wide 5 adapter. if u use wide 5 drums you'll need a 10mm spacer to get the tires off the springplate. I was running 205/60/14 rear tires and had to use a spacer since I got type 3 rear wide 5 drums. I had the rims widened and changed the offset to 4 inches which solved my problem, running 215/65/14 on 14x6 rims now and fits perfect.

4. I actually have drums on the 68 donor transaxle, and they are 5 hole and seem to match a wheel when I hold it up, but the lug nut holes are smaller. What drums could they be (see photo), and do Thing drums or early bus or Type 3 have smaller diameter thread on the wide 5 holes?

type 2 have 14in lug nuts, you'll have to get 12mm lug nuts from a type3 or type 1, plus if u are running stock rims on t3 or thing wide5 drums you'll need a 10mm spacer so you'll have to get 20mm long lug nuts.

I do not want to go too low and hit things, what is the smallest amount I can drop the bus using this set up? Is it 3" based on the flipped spindles up front? I see most people reference slammed buses, and not too much on just getting rid of the RGB's and keeping a closer to normal look.

with mine I have it set at the highest setting on dropped spindles and stock width adjustable beam, I have to be careful over speed bumps and dips, especially if I have someone else in the car. get a steering box cover off the samba of raise the box. if you narrow the beam then that helps stop tire rubbing, but the steering box will still hit. the drop spindles that I have actually brought each wheel in about 1/2 inches each side, but im running 14x6 widened bus rims with 185/55/14 tires so it still handles great.

Wheels / Tires:

1. I have either 14" stock wheels, or 15" aftermarket (both wide 5 bolt) that I can use. Is there an advantage to using the 15" other than look? u can get 165/45 or 145/65 tires in 15in and 155/65 tires in 14 inch.

its really up to your taste. if u dont want to narrow the beam, which badly affects handling then stay stock rims with 155/65/14 tires and you'll be good to go. with after market wheels due to their offset you'll need to use a narrowed beam to stop from rubbing the wheel arches. on the rear stock wheels need a spacer(or 4 to 5 lug adapter) to get off the springplate, aftermarket wheels may fit just right or rub the fender, gotta measure it before you decide. either way get good shocks and a aftermarket swaybar. also if you want to upgrade to dics there is only a couple options for a kit to fit in a 14inch wheel and they all are around $1000, with 15in rims you have more choices and options.

2. Can I use standard sized tires on the 14" rims to be able to go back to normal if I want (seems so many people try tires and switch until they are set. I do not have the money to go through that process!

the best I found so far is 155/65/14 up front, 205/65/14 out back. you'll have to use a scissor jack to get the rear axle low enough to get the tire off no mater what. you cant run same size all around without either rubbing a lot up front or over revving the hell out of the engine to maintain a decent highway speed, 65mph atleast.
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Kiwinw
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the great info kingodirt
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am curious to know how low the rear of a bus will go that still have the reduction boxes. I'm not worried about the negative camber, I just want to know how low it will go before the gear oil runs out of the boxes and back to the tranny. I've been unable to find any info on this. A couple of pics would be great Very Happy
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1 outer click will probably be the limit, wouldn't do more.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kingodirtp3 wrote:
1 outer click will probably be the limit, wouldn't do more.


I am wanting to see pics
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

glifahrenheitcameron wrote:
kingodirtp3 wrote:
1 outer click will probably be the limit, wouldn't do more.


I am wanting to see pics


Do a search in the gallery. Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2014 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Green and white DC is one I lowered for a kid here in Reno. Flipped spindles and one spline with reduction boxes.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:14 pm    Post subject: tire size and rear lowering Reply with quote

I am building a '61 crew cab. I am running a '68 Type 1 transaxle and Type III brakes and drums. I am using drop spring plates and we measured 19 degrees down. I have 15" wheels and 195/65 r15. Drum to drum (on outer) currently measures 53 1/4". I'm having a hard time getting the wheels attached. Wondering if I bought too big tires or is there something else I'm missing. Any help would be appreciated.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

to remove the rear wheels once the straight axle kit is installed you'll need to use a scissor jack to push the drum low enough to get the rear wheels in the arch.
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