Sears Circling the Drain

[VOLKSWAGNUT]

[Jon Schmid]

[cdennisg]

[JonL]

I saw this today while I was in home depot, kinda related, check out the warranty on hand tools

http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdfImages/18/183de0c2-e268-404d-b875-02c933cd7e4b.pdf

[wcfvw69]

[VOLKSWAGNUT]

[cdennisg]

Love using Torx screws for wood work. A 3" screw with a T25 head and an 18volt impact driver is a strong and loud way to get shit done.
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nothing

[raygreenwood]

Actually....the term "Torx screw" is rather generic. More on that in a second.

The Torx screw when properly sized for the load...is far stronger.....meaning it can handle far more tool bit torque tightening and removing.....than the triple square type bolt head.

The problem with the triple square type bolt is that even though it has far more contact surface than a six point cap screw.....its angle against angle on the spline mating surfaces. That physically drives the mating surface of the triple square bit....away from the kating surfaces of the bolt....as load increases. This is why to keep from stripping, distorting or spreading the splined cup in the bolt.....the bolt must be top notch quality. This is why CV bolts are class 12.9.

The biggest two problems with triple square headed bolts that cause failure and stripping ...are not the triple square spline design.....its the owner operator not cleaning the splines out and using a quality tool that is a tight fit......or more stupidly using an allen key. The other problem is allowing the fastener to corrode into the theads....by not using proper bolt plating (look up GMs stupid failures back in the 80s/90s on their brake and suspension hardware...to see how NOT to do it).....or by not applying anti-seize compound.

The triple square design allows more than double the force before stripping than an allen key bolt.

Six point hex head cap screws are plentty strong. Its not the bolt head design that is the problem with a six point cap screw......its the fact that a six point socket has very poor contact area. A 12 point cap screw has double the contact area to impart torque....and spread load......and even better....quit using straight cut 6 and 12 point sockets....and buy a "lobed" 6 or 12 point socket....also called a "Flank drive" socket...because the rounded lobes put the force on the flanks/faces of the bolt head....and not on the corners.

A six point cap screw....using a flank drive socket....you can impart nearly 75% more force on the bolt head without worry of stripping....as compared to a normal 6 or 12 point,socket.

Back ro the Torx screws. 90% of all issues with Torx screws.....are the fact that most people simply do not have the correct sized bits......or they bought cheaply made, poor fitting bits.

There are several types of Torx screws. The "Torx plus" screws...are a combination of normal torx....and a flank drive lobbed socket. They are superior in load to ANY other fastener. You can put far more wrench force/torque into a Torx plus" internal or external socket....than any of the fasteners cross ssction or metallurgy is designed to handle. Thats saying something.

I have had "0" problems with any Torx fastener ever...except in the early days when GM and Ford started using them.....before quality tools were commonly availabl. It sucked to start working on something and find a fastener you had no tools to remove or install.

I find that all but the best quality Torx bits....are usually poorly sized and fit the fastener poorly. Thats an issue. I find the same issue with all but a couple of brands of Allen key have the same problem.

My only problems with Torx bolts/screws.....have been on GM and a few other cars where the bopt plating was electrochemically the wrong polarity to the plating or metal it,was bolted into......causing RAPID corrosion of the bolt into the threads.

I have seen a few applications where "specialty" torx fasteners were "created" by the OEM to fit in a place that was too narrow even for a normal Torx bolt. They usually machine the head narrower which removes important metal that keeps the internal torx spline from deforming and stripping.
Thats not a tailure of the Torx system....its an example of engineering design stupidity. Fix the part...dont make an f'd up fastener design for it. Ray

[Malokin Martin]

[VOLKSWAGNUT]

So .. judging by the last few pages.. any body else feel ... we must all have shit for tools compared to raygreenwood..??

Thanks for taking people to tool school..

To break all that schooling down.. In most cases.. its all about the surface contact area of a tool vs the fastener.. and its ability to transfer torque without destroying it .. or the tool..

Sure.....when the proper designed tool .. is used for it's given proper designed mating fastener.. they work together flawlessly..... but rarely .. is it a controlled and ideal environment... in the real world..
Lots of variables with materials, quality, and ability..

[Zundfolge1432]

[Zundfolge1432]

[Zundfolge1432]

If you see this brand scarf it up, it's pre 1948 but became Proto, in fact Proto parts fit this tool and the warranty is still honored.

[super74beetle]

George Carlin told a joke, the beginning of which I do not remember but the final part of it was "It's the same feeling I get walking through Sears wondering what the hell they did with Roebuck".

Now he can wonder what the hell they did with Sears.

[modok]

[modok]

I have a plumb 5/16 drive rachet!

[Bobnotch]

[Bobnotch]

[hazetguy]

https://www.thestreet.com/story/13969600/1/dying-s...story.html

(saw this posted on the garage journal yesterday, and it's already up to 3 pages this morning. )
_________________
thebucket: I invested in hoodride, now DBD won't return my call?
hazetguy: invested?
thebucket: Yeah Haze, its where people put money into a company in hopes of a return on their money

[OB Bus]