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73SuperBeet Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2017 Posts: 18 Location: Orlando, FL
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Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:14 pm Post subject: New to me 73 SuperBeetle idling issues |
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Hi guys I just picked up a 73 Super Beetle from a co-worker. The car needs some TLC but overall is in good shape, has been sitting for about a year. Anywho, the person I got it from had a mechanic come out and get it up and running a few days before I got it. It technically is running and driving but the idle is very rough and will eventually die out. At idle it the engine almost seems to be misfiring but as soon as it gets a little fuel it smooths out and idles fine. So far I have replaced plugs and wires, distributor cap, checked timing and points as well as took the top of the carb off and cleaned out all of the jets. All were clean except for the Pilot Jet. It was clogged so I cleaned and put back in, it idled fine for about 30-45 seconds but then the idle went back to being rough.
So I decided to go the internet for answers and I stumbled on TheSamba and I found a thread about what seemed like similar issues. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=666437&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
I went through and tried all the things that he did. In order for my engine to idle the Bypass Screw is 8.5 turns out and the Volume Control Screw was out 4.5 turns which was close to his. My carb base was between 57 and 58* while the right header was 115-120* and the left header was 110-115*, this was after 4-5 minutes of idle time (probably worth noting that it was probably a little higher than 900rpm because I was having to make it idle by giving it throttle).
Where it gets a different is when my engine starts to run poorly there is no fuel coming out of the main nozzle. My float is a dark brown Solex float that certainly feels hollow and there doesn't seem to be any holes or fuel inside the float so I am not sure if it has any effect on it.
To sum up, I have replaced plugs, wires, distributor cap, checked timing and points, cleaned all the jets (only one was clogged). After cleaning and all that stuff replaced it idled ok for a few seconds and then idled poorly again. I can drive it and when actually driving it does ok in 1st, when shifting to second at a normal RPM it bogs a bit and then smooths out, third will bog a little bit as well and then smooth out. I am fairly certain there is debris in the fuel and I will be changing out the fuel filter (which I have learned is in a bad place) to see if that stops the jet from clogging. If not then how do I go about draining this fuel tank?
I did take some videos of it running but for some reason my phone didn't get the volume and when playing the video it just has white noise instead of the engine sound.
Hope there is enough info there but let me know what else would help diagnose if there is an additional issue than dirty fuel/fuel filter
Thanks!
Jason
Last edited by 73SuperBeet on Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:25 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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73SuperBeet Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2017 Posts: 18 Location: Orlando, FL
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Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:18 pm Post subject: Re: New to me 72 Super |
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It may or may not be worth noting that the mechanic said that the fan was unbalanced and that would need to be looked at. I believe he is under that impression because at that low idle the entire engine shakes and there is a rattle but as soon as you get a little more RPM it is very smooth. Oh and yes I am 100% sure that the wires on hooked up correctly, as long as cylinders are front right-2, front left-4, back left-3, back right-1 and firing order is 1-4-3-2
Last edited by 73SuperBeet on Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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73SuperBeet Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2017 Posts: 18 Location: Orlando, FL
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Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:16 pm Post subject: Re: New to me 73 Super |
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Little more to be added to this. I have included a picture of my carb and the "outlet" of the fan housing. Should there be a cover over this outlet? This piece is on both sides...
I believe I have an 009 distributor and have read that those can be difficult to tune correctly with a 34 PICT-3 carburetor which is what I am pretty sure I have. Any opinions?
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7276 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 7:39 pm Post subject: Re: New to me 73 Super |
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Post a picture that shows the complete engine compartment. Could be many things wrong but there's not enough to see in these. _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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73SuperBeet Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2017 Posts: 18 Location: Orlando, FL
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Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: New to me 73 Super |
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There is a stock air cleaner on it, just have it off in this picture |
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Tim Donahoe Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012 Posts: 11739 Location: Redding, CA
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Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:05 pm Post subject: Re: New to me 73 Super |
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You have your plug wires in the wrong places--if you really have them as you stated.
Front right 1, back right 2, front left 3, back left 4.
Tim _________________ Let's do the Time Warp again!
Richard O'Brien |
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73SuperBeet Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2017 Posts: 18 Location: Orlando, FL
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Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:25 pm Post subject: Re: New to me 73 Super |
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I'm referring to front and back of the engine not the car. So the #1 cylinder is the one farthest back from the back bumper. |
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Luft kühl Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2009 Posts: 1178 Location: Allentown, PA
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Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:42 pm Post subject: Re: New to me 73 Super |
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73SuperBeet Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2017 Posts: 18 Location: Orlando, FL
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Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:12 am Post subject: Re: New to me 73 Super |
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That's how i have it |
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73SuperBeet Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2017 Posts: 18 Location: Orlando, FL
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Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 11:42 am Post subject: Re: New to me 73 Super |
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Anyone have any ideas? |
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andk5591 Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005 Posts: 16754 Location: State College, PA
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Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:26 pm Post subject: Re: New to me 73 Super |
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I do a lot of "unknown" engines and after getting it to run and gone through as much of a tune up as I can (valves, points, plugs, etc), one of the first thing I do is check for vacuum leaks. I use a carb cleaner spray nozzle on a can of starter fluid and give it little shots at any junction in the intake section of the engine. Manifold to heads, rubber boots on the intake, carb base, etc. Also look for any missing or or cracked carb port plugs.
On the flip side, I have fought with some with bad/dirty gas that gave me fits until I got all the crap cleaned out after several carb teardowns. You SHOULD replace the soft fuel lines anyway and put a new filter under tank and another one TEMPORARILY just ahead of the carb. Install a safety wire on your carb inlet. _________________ D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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jpowell490 Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2010 Posts: 44 Location: Johnson City, TN
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Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:43 pm Post subject: Re: New to me 73 Super |
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Most all of the beetles I have owned, have had some sort of foreign object in the gas tank. Yours might have some sort of dirt or debris in it. Might want to take it out and flush it. |
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73SuperBeet Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2017 Posts: 18 Location: Orlando, FL
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Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: New to me 73 Super |
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I'll check for any leaks, haven't done that yet.
Last edited by 73SuperBeet on Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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73SuperBeet Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2017 Posts: 18 Location: Orlando, FL
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Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:50 pm Post subject: Re: New to me 73 Super |
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andk5591 wrote: |
I do a lot of "unknown" engines and after getting it to run and gone through as much of a tune up as I can (valves, points, plugs, etc), one of the first thing I do is check for vacuum leaks. I use a carb cleaner spray nozzle on a can of starter fluid and give it little shots at any junction in the intake section of the engine. Manifold to heads, rubber boots on the intake, carb base, etc. Also look for any missing or or cracked carb port plugs.
On the flip side, I have fought with some with bad/dirty gas that gave me fits until I got all the crap cleaned out after several carb teardowns. You SHOULD replace the soft fuel lines anyway and put a new filter under tank and another one TEMPORARILY just ahead of the carb. Install a safety wire on your carb inlet. |
Sprayed all the junctions down while it was idling and no change in RPMs or engine noise, I don't think there is a leak. It has started to seem like that when the engine is cold it idles ok until the choke opens up. Could be a Fike but the past 2-3 times it's been started cold it has idled well for 1-1.5 minutes and then begins to idle poorly and die or will still running if I give it some throttle |
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Daddy o's 67 Samba Member
Joined: November 25, 2008 Posts: 118 Location: Lancaster, SC
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Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: New to me 73 SuperBeetle idling issues |
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The Carb you have doesn't work well with the 009 Dist. I believe your going to have to change the dist. to a DVDA model. The DVDA Dist is set up for vacuum advance and vacuum retard which is what this carb was set up to work with. |
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73SuperBeet Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2017 Posts: 18 Location: Orlando, FL
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Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: New to me 73 SuperBeetle idling issues |
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Daddy o's 67 wrote: |
The Carb you have doesn't work well with the 009 Dist. I believe your going to have to change the dist. to a DVDA model. The DVDA Dist is set up for vacuum advance and vacuum retard which is what this carb was set up to work with. |
I found out that same thing last night in an article. Is it safe to say no one has good experience with this setup? |
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Daddy o's 67 Samba Member
Joined: November 25, 2008 Posts: 118 Location: Lancaster, SC
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Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 6:28 pm Post subject: Re: New to me 73 SuperBeetle idling issues |
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Stock exhaust & dist is what makes this carb happy. I changed to a H30/31 because I have a header and a 009 dist. My 1600DP runs much better now with out the off idle stumbles it had before with that same carb. |
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73SuperBeet Samba Member
Joined: January 07, 2017 Posts: 18 Location: Orlando, FL
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Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:08 pm Post subject: Re: New to me 73 SuperBeetle idling issues |
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Cool! So there is another option. would I be better if changing the carb or the distributor? |
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andk5591 Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005 Posts: 16754 Location: State College, PA
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 6:35 am Post subject: Re: New to me 73 SuperBeetle idling issues |
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OK - Swapping distributors has nothing to do with your idle issue UNLESS your timing is way off. By checking your timing, you do it with it revved up to around 3000 RPMs or until it stops advancing. Should be be set 28 to 32 degrees. When you come back to idle, it should be somewhere between 7 and 10. If you dont have a degreed pulley, Hotspark and other sites have a template you can print and use to mark timing points. FYI - I have a junked 009 in my parts box that has a totally stuck advance - doesnt work at all.
Can your exisiting combo work? Yeah. There are lots of folks on here that have made it work with some tweaks. I dont care for it myself and usually run an SVDA or DVDA with a 34PICT3.
OK - so now back to what you have going on. Think about this - idles fine with choke on. You have 2 things going on at that time. The choke butterfly is partially closed which richens the mixture AND also have the steps on the throttle that increase idle speed. THEN after it warms up both things change. So, is your idle speed set correctly? See VW Resource site for how to adjust idle speed. And you have to bear with me on this since I am at my sisters house and dont have any of my manuals in front of me. I believe the 34 has a second small idle jet behind a little screw next to the idle jet. Look for it, pull and clean it. _________________ D-Dubya Manx clone - 63 Short pan,1914.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Cindy's daily driver.
Max - 73 standard Beetle hearse project - For sale
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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Mikedrevguy Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2008 Posts: 2234 Location: Medford, OR
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:36 am Post subject: Re: New to me 73 SuperBeetle idling issues |
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Follow the procedures ar Rob and Daves VW Resource to set the choke and reset fast idle adjuster to where it needs to be.
http://www.vw-resource.com/34pict3.html#carb
Good luck. _________________ 74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
76 914 with 2260
79 VW Iltis
69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato
Illigitimi non-Carborundum!! |
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