Winter engine start

[62ItalianRagtop]

Hi,

last night I left my 62 outdoor with a temperature of -3 °C / 26 °F.
I still have 6 volts electrical system and an Optima Red Top battery.
When I turned the key for start, for 5 seconds the starter did not give signs of life / did not spin/rotate !!
Then, thanks to the powerful battery, it started.

Is this vacuum of 5 sec normal ? Can I do something to improve the start-up at very low temperatures ?

Thank you
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LOOKING FOR 62 ENGINE WITH NUMBER FROM 6.904.xxx TO 6.915.xxx
http://tettodistraccio.blogspot.com/

[williamM]

You probably have some water in there and the long pause- heated up the contacts- Had a motorhome that sat in the weeds of Ore. for a while and everything got moisture in it- I named it the rolling repair for the number of times the starter and fuel selector valve were inside warming up before it would work

THEN- there is the question of how old the grease is inside the starter. when was it last serviced?

Had a beetle that I had to park on a hill to jump start every morning- once warmed up everything worked normally.
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some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.

opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.

Don't step in any!

[tasb]

I grew up in the northern lower peninsula of Michigan. One year shortly before I left the temperature dipped to - 60+ F. My Beetle did start and eventually idles ok but it was too cold to go anywhere. I know my neighbors were stranded in their water cooled cars with frozen radiators.

Pre 1960 buses came standard with a handcrank arrangement. Presumably the Beetle could be push started where the bus was too heavy.
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Roads Scholar &
1957 Kombi low mileage 36 hp governor equipped M 178 Slow Drag Winner 2014, 2015, 2018

1965 hardtop Deluxe Microbus owned since 1990 M 620 factory 12 v 1500cc

1961 (October)Single Cab- Road Trip Workhorse

[Java beetle 65]

could be a combination of things. try the following:

check battery is performing
clean connections on battery, starter, battery earth strap
make sure the connections on the battery are tight, i have found that if these are loose nothing happens when turning the key (and this is on a 12V system)

if none of these solve the problem you may have an issue with the starter solenoid

[62ItalianRagtop]

[KTPhil]

So to isolate this, think back when it was silent...

Did it first CLUNK and then be silent for five seconds, then turn over?
Or was it perfectly silent (no clunk, not even a click) as you turned the key, silent for five seconds...and THEN clunk and turn over?

The distinction will tell us if the solenoid is the root cause, or if the starter itself is "lazy."

Either way the starter/solenoid should come out, but you can't test it sitting on the bench, so this matters.

Also, while it is our, check your starter bushing in the bell housing.

I would remove the solenoid, clean our all grease, and use a minimal amount of grease that is made for extremely low temperatures. Make sure you seal the interface with silicone seal or other waterproof sealant.

[62ItalianRagtop]

It was perfectly silent (no clunk, not even a click) as I turned the key, silent for five seconds...and THEN clunk and turn over.

So the problem is the solenoid ?
Could be the problem is the ignition switch ?

Thank you
_________________
LOOKING FOR 62 ENGINE WITH NUMBER FROM 6.904.xxx TO 6.915.xxx
http://tettodistraccio.blogspot.com/

[williamM]

You can run a jumper from the wire to the starter and eliminate the key switch- that will at least run the key switch out of the equation.
_________________
some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.

opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.

Don't step in any!

[Abscate]

When the pigtail between the solenoid and motor gets corroded delayed cranking is a common symptom.
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.ssS!

[KTPhil]

Yes, it points to either the solenoid or the wiring leading to it. The jumper will help separate the two.

I would set things out the evening of a cold one, and run a heavy (10 gauge or larger jumper from the push-on terminal of the solenoid (tightly clamped), and leave it near the positive battery terminal under the back seat.

The next morning, hit the key to start, but only for one second.
- If it starts, you unfortunately learn nothing.
- If it does nothing, release it quickly so you don't warm it up and confuse things, leaving the ignition on.

Now connect your jumper to the battery, and see if that make it crank immediately.
- If it does nothing, then you have pretty much narrowed it to a bum or stuck solenoid.
- If it cranks merrily then you probably have too much resistance in the ignition/start circuit, and need to search for a voltage drop or loose connection.

If it's the latter, check the wiring diagram, noticing your main power form the battery/regulator neither goes to the ignition switch nor to the fusebox, but instead makes a handy stopover at the headlight switch. Often the last connection checked, it is a common failure/high resistance point.

[herbie1200]

My 6V start perfectly with those enhancement:
- grease into pinion bearing (the one into gearbox case)
- hard start relay

When very cold I'm used to depress clutch during cranking because a cold gearbox is an heavy load for starter.

[Slow 1200]

[williamM]

[62ItalianRagtop]

I don't understand sorry ... anyone can explain me what is this thrust bearing ?
_________________
LOOKING FOR 62 ENGINE WITH NUMBER FROM 6.904.xxx TO 6.915.xxx
http://tettodistraccio.blogspot.com/

[williamM]

the first bearing on the crank shaft hold the flywheel in place- when you press on the clutch- the face of that bearing hold that pressure so the crank does not move forward-- thats its job and the more that face wears or the engine block distorts- the more end play is developed- That end play is a good indicator of the engines over all condition
_________________
some days I get up and just sit and think. Some days I just sit.

opinion untempered by fact is ignorance.

Don't step in any!

[62ItalianRagtop]

Any picture ? thank you
_________________
LOOKING FOR 62 ENGINE WITH NUMBER FROM 6.904.xxx TO 6.915.xxx
http://tettodistraccio.blogspot.com/

[57BLITZ]

[Abscate]

There is a lot of stuff made up on the Internet.
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.ssS!

[62ItalianRagtop]

[KTPhil]

VW recommended that below freezing, the clutch pedal can be depressed to let the engine crank faster. (end of first paragraph)

They do not mention the additional wear on the #1 (thrust) bearing. But in fact ANY time you press the clutch pedal, you are imparting a load on the bearing along the axis of the crankshaft. Every time you shift you do this. However, it is for a brief moment and the motor is warmed up with free-flowing oil. Doing this when starting, on the other hand, when the bearing may be somewhat dry and tolerances haven't reached warmed-up levels, and with cranking goes on for many seconds... it can be more significant.

Given the choice of not starting, or adding a minor wear to the bearing occasionally... I'd press the pedal and not worry. If you are in such a cold climate for months on end, think about a block heater.

By the way, this is why you should not wait at a stoplight in gear with the clutch pressed-- same thrust bearing (and maybe case!) wear.