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Check out this rust by my rear window, need advise on repair pls
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johnsongti
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 2:26 pm    Post subject: Check out this rust by my rear window, need advise on repair pls Reply with quote

OK so I knew that my car had a patch covering up a hole on the driver side panel under the rear window. I started digging to see how bad it was and found lots of bondo and a larger hole then anticipated. Anyway I have a few questions before I start my fix for this rust.

Where the firewall/upper portion of the luggage try meets the panel below the rear window it has a crevasse where the interior normally tucks, is the metal from the luggage/firewall supposed to curve under and be spot welded from the engine bay side? mine channel is all rusted and I dont know how this is supposed to look or attache the two.

What would be everyones best suggestions on repairing this rust? Should I find a donor and cut the top few inches of the firewall all the way to about half way up the rear window metal piece as one unit and put that in like a patch panel? Or have small custom patches welded in?

Here are some pictures. luckily this is the only rust on this car and everything else is near perfect and solid.

Also any pictures of what this area should look like nice clean and solid would be appreciated

.
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IMG_2907 by CrisGTI, on Flickr

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IMG_2908 by CrisGTI, on Flickr

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IMG_2909 by CrisGTI, on Flickr

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IMG_2910 by CrisGTI, on Flickr

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IMG_2911 by CrisGTI, on Flickr

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IMG_2906 by CrisGTI, on Flickr
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Cali_Army_Guy
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Check out this rust by my rear window, need advise on repair pls Reply with quote

If it was me I would would find a donor car.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 4:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Check out this rust by my rear window, need advise on repair pls Reply with quote

To do it right, your gonna have to dig deep and cut all of the corrosion out and weld in a good original peice from another car.
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johnsongti
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Check out this rust by my rear window, need advise on repair pls Reply with quote

thanks for the replies. I pretty much knew that. my question is the best way to attack replacing this section? im not sure exactly what its supposed to look like in that groove area. On another note does anyone know what year I could use up to? wondering if that inner section is the same on later standard cars past 1967.

thanks again.
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Cali_Army_Guy
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Check out this rust by my rear window, need advise on repair pls Reply with quote

What year is your car?
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Sharp64 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Check out this rust by my rear window, need advise on repair pls Reply with quote

Based on an earlier post he has a 66. Not sure if it's the same car or not?
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Check out this rust by my rear window, need advise on repair pls Reply with quote

I got a donor. A super beetle. It worked out ok.
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johnsongti
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Check out this rust by my rear window, need advise on repair pls Reply with quote

Yes this is a 66. It appears from what im seeing I can surely use up to a 77 standard. unsure on the superbeetle part but Oldmanmark says he did so.... the hunt is on I guess for a good donor piece. I have to remove the rear window as well and make sure the channel is not damaged before I go any further.
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Cali_Army_Guy
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Check out this rust by my rear window, need advise on repair pls Reply with quote

In the morning I'll take some pictures of that seam area on my '66 so you can see what it's supposed to look like.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Check out this rust by my rear window, need advise on repair pls Reply with quote

johnsongti wrote:
unsure on the superbeetle part .


Supers and standards are the same from the windshield back .
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Check out this rust by my rear window, need advise on repair pls Reply with quote

Just cut the whole back end off & do what grandpa Pete did.
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johnsongti
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Check out this rust by my rear window, need advise on repair pls Reply with quote

Cali army guy. Thanks for that. Thanks for the super/standard clarification as well and as much as I think grandpa petes delivery is cool I couldn't steal his thunder and make a second lol. I will be In Search for a local car now so I can source some good metal. Ordering my new pass floor pan tomorrow to repair the only other rust the car has From the battery.

Thanks to everyone I'm sure I will be back sooner or later asking more questions again as my build continues. As most this started as a quick let's pull the engine to freshen it up to well better pull the body to fix the pan and now while the bodies off let's just dig into all the crap I have been putting off for so long lol.
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VOLKSWAGNUT
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:16 am    Post subject: Re: Check out this rust by my rear window, need advise on repair pls Reply with quote

Gotta admit.... thats a tough place to repair..

If you dont plan on driving it it rain... treat it so it wont spread, paint it .. and move on to enjoying your car..

If rain and water is in its future.... well you know what you have to do,


The carpet tuck channel inside .. often rusts right trough to the air vents on the outside in the worst place.. thanks to a leaking rear window...

OR

The "gutter" for the rear vent drain.. will rust through into the rear shelf area..

Hopefully the shelf is ok???? As its usually toast too.. along with some areas lower..


When I have had to repair these areas.. its always been a case by case basis..because not all leak in the same area.. due to the area the car was parked at.. (level)

More often than not.. I have to replace a section of vent gutter and tuck channel.. along with some firewall.. and overlapping up into the rear window panel areas.

20 bucks says under that rear window seal are some issues too..

Its a matter of cutting out as much but...as little as possible.. most times I will overlap some material (always thinking like water) treating metal as I go..

The hardest part.. is the area under the vents.. unless you drill the louvers out .. it's simply impossible to access..

IMO.. this area if rusted through to under the vents.. is one of the hardest areas to repair on a VW.. Mad
Especially.. if you want it 100% perfect..

I usually just do the best I can.. and again.. think like water.. cut out, make pieces from donor parts, overlap materials (metal), weld or GLUE in and treat so it will not start all over again.

Yes.. Glue...but not Elmers..

Dont underestimate some good metal panel bonding adhesive (body repair) when installing overlapping metal.. .. it can provide a good water sealant as well a a super strong panel bond..


Best advice I can give..as for being proactive.... keep those vent gutters clean and make sure that rear window isn't leaking..



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anthracitedub
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:25 am    Post subject: Re: Check out this rust by my rear window, need advise on repair pls Reply with quote

Yeah, secure a full donor section and bet on taking it off the road for a while...I'd pull the glass and engine/fire wall material.

Clean the whole area with a wire wheel, get it down to where you can really see what's going on... there may be more rust hiding in that area because of the seams and obscurity associated with that area.

But, really if you wanna fix it right you gotta get the whole area proper.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:36 am    Post subject: Re: Check out this rust by my rear window, need advise on repair pls Reply with quote

Ok I lied. My car has dynamat covering that seam so you can't see it to take a picture. Maybe search the gallery here. Or simply look at a good donor for what it should look like.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:52 am    Post subject: Re: Check out this rust by my rear window, need advise on repair pls Reply with quote

grandpa pete wrote:
johnsongti wrote:
unsure on the superbeetle part .

Supers and standards are the same from the windshield back .

But isn't the late rear window a little bigger compared to the mid-'60's Bugs? That might make the inside panel below the glass a little different.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Check out this rust by my rear window, need advise on repair pls Reply with quote

EVfun wrote:
grandpa pete wrote:
johnsongti wrote:
unsure on the superbeetle part .

Supers and standards are the same from the windshield back .

But isn't the late rear window a little bigger compared to the mid-'60's Bugs? That might make the inside panel below the glass a little different.


EVfun, you're right. I have seen several posts lately claiming that " Super's and standards are the same from the windshield back"

It's just not true.

Here's a repair to the luggage area on a 67.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Here's a shot of that area from the side, in a 62

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Check out this rust by my rear window, need advise on repair pls Reply with quote

Beetle rear window glass is the same size, 1965 thru 1971.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Check out this rust by my rear window, need advise on repair pls Reply with quote

My question is how rotted is the rest of the body. That's not a typical spot that I've seen rot out. Clearly this bug has been exposed to lots of salt over the years.

How's the heater channels, front fire wall, top hat, rear quarter panels, etc? If they are also rusted out, you'd be miles ahead in finding a rust free body vs. patching that bug up.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Check out this rust by my rear window, need advise on repair pls Reply with quote

They rust there when the rear window rubber is compromised. Water comes in and soakes the carpet/headliner, holding moisture next to the steel... I've seen a couple good solid bodies with rust in that area.
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