Engine size/code question?? VW symbol before F

[squagon]

Looking at a bug. The owner thinks engine is 1500 or 1600. Engine # is as follows

VW symbol (regular, not recycle symbol) F (space) O4......

Samba charts say "F" means 1300. Other pages say it could easily be a 1300 turned into a 1500. Neither chart mentions whether the VW symbol means anything before the F and numbers

Please help!! Is it 1300, 1500, 1600????

Here's a photo

[Danwvw]

It's a early 1300 case probably one of the first 1966 model year cars sold in the US in the fall of 1965. From the looks of that generator stand I would say it has not been rebuilt in years but if it's still running then maybe. Otherwise it's still a 1300 only way to know is to take the engine out and take the heads off and measure the cylinder bore. Maybe it's stamped on top of the pistons.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[KTPhil]

Has anyone figured out a scheme to use a fluid displacement setup screwed to the spark plug hole, turn the engine through a compression stroke, and measure cylinder swept volume directly? Of course you would have to mess with valve adjustment to eliminate overlap and such, but shouldn't it be workable? Anyone sell such a gizmo? Will it work on a boxer engine with our valve geometry?

[rockerarm]

[rockerarm]

To the original poster, Hi and WELCOME.
The F case is in fact a 1300 series engine, USA delivery in 1966. But, this case as are the later 1500's were the basis during repairs to be upgraded to the popular 1600.
Why not entertain the idea of getting that engine to run and see where that takes you?
Hope this helps, Bill.

[squagon]

[Danwvw]

Good Idea about using a fluid to measure the cylinder volumes, All it would take is a fitting a hose and a lab beaker.

Oh, and remove the rocker arm before you crank the engine over with this stuff hooked up to a beaker full of oil.

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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[KTPhil]

These methods will help you once you buy it, but probably won't inform your buying decision.

How does it affect your price offer? Are you specifically looking for an original 1300 engine?

As posted, back in the day, it was routine to machine the case for larger, 1500 or later 1600 cylinders, for a bit more power. later, these were more common and cheaper, making it a no-brainer upgrade (at least back then).

[squagon]

[KTPhil]

There are some folks who specifically want an unmolested 1300 case for their '66 or later Euro model.

I suggest you don't let the engine size stand in your way. Once bought, if it's the 15/1600 you want, you are set. If it is still 1300 and runs, you can sell that motor (perhaps for a small premium) and then build the 1600 you want. Or just drive it! 1300s are a good low-speed torque motor, I hear.

Just a check... what carb is on it? If it is the original carb, with original jets, that is a good indicator it's still a 1300. Usually a larger carb or re-jetting is needed for the larger displacement. Also, you may be able to find a head part number by popping off a valve cover.

[Danwvw]

Really, it doesn't matter just because it all pretty much scrap, The case is probably oxidized the studs pulled, the cylinders worn out the heads cracked. Without seeing an engine apart or driving it and it running strong there is not really much you can tell. The 1300 cases are given a bad rap on the samba but I have found them always rebuildable well the 1500 cases too for that matter. It's the 1600 dual port cases that are all hammered out on the main bearings. Probably because they rev better. Got driven 75 mph a lot.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Sharp64]

Unless it's a proven low mileage motor, you may have to rebuild it no matter what. Maybe the owner will pull a valve cover off and give you the number on the heads? If they are 1300, then it's possible it's an untouched 1300. Or it could have had the heads cut to accommodate 85.5 pistons and cylinders. If they are 1500/1600 heads its been rebuilt larger and could be the 1600 you seek. Either way, if you rebuild it, its cheaper just to buy new pistons and cylinders. If the heads are bigger you're already there, but buying new ones from what I understand is about the same as getting them rebuilt.
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1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine

[h~moto]

Some questions that I haven't seen answered: What is the year of the car? Does the engine run? If not, have you done any tests that will help give an idea of the condition such as trying to turn the engine by hand, push-pulling on the crank pulley to check for excess play or looking at the condition of the oil on the dipstick?

[squagon]

[Danwvw]

The thing about the 1300's is that they ran just as good as the 1500 and 1600 single ports, With a header they really ran nice. I don't think the head studs pulled either. Nice thick cylinders! Smaller Valves, Better torque.
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[Sharp64]

[rockerarm]

Hi. Then I would more concerned about the overall condition of the body/pan. Rust, collision damage, etc are deal breakers for most people. The engine/trans/front beam all unbolt so are completely replaceable or repairable, if needed. If ones specialty is vintage auto body restoration, that's a different story.
A lot of this will be hinging on how the seller is presenting the car to prospective buyers. Plus it is all about what you want.
Bill

[squagon]

[Danwvw]

It has a 12 Volt Motorola Alternator! Looks like a later Model Carb too. Factory Warm air hook-ups via the oil bath air cleaner are gone, crappy air cleaner.
I wonder if they updated the starter to 12 volts?
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1960 Beetle And 1679cc DP W-100 & Dual Zeniths!

[squagon]