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T3 rear hatch window fogged
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kirschwagen
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:02 am    Post subject: T3 rear hatch window fogged Reply with quote

Hello. This winter my square is parked outside.
Everyday my rear hatch window is fogged up.
condensation inside the window, enough to have to wipe down.

does this point mainly to the rear window seal, or more to the
engine lid seal or main hatch door seal? also, my insulation pad
is missing under the rear cargo mat. could this be causing this phenomenon?
the rear deck is damp sometimes too around the inside fender wells.

i have never experienced this before. anyone else?
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:13 am    Post subject: Re: T3 rear hatch window fogged Reply with quote

Is it just the rear? Condensation indicates water leaking in somewhere...obviously.

It could be anywhere from near the back seat rearward if its just the back glass.

Also is that area is in the shade....it could be water anywhere in the car and just condensing there because thats the coolest spot. Ray
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kirschwagen
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:18 am    Post subject: Re: T3 rear hatch window fogged Reply with quote

ray, it is indeed just the back glass. partial shade time. our driveway usually gets morning sun.
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Donnie strickland
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:19 am    Post subject: Re: T3 rear hatch window fogged Reply with quote

My rear deck was damp, and I found the water -- just a little -- was seeping in around the rear side windows. I replaced the window rubber on both sides, and that stopped it. Now, no more fog on the inside.

I also replaced the middle side window and rear hatch window seals while I was at it. All the rubber came from ISP West; I reused the original trim.
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kirschwagen
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:28 am    Post subject: Re: T3 rear hatch window fogged Reply with quote

thanks, donnie. guess i'll have to take a closer look then. was hoping is was just caused by really cold sheet metal. may wd40 my rear hatch seal to see if that makes a slight difference. it helped my drivers side door. overall my seals do not look thrashed. but they are about 20 years old now. and side pop out windows never fit quite right.
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kirschwagen
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:31 am    Post subject: Re: T3 rear hatch window fogged Reply with quote

nice. really clean job, donnie!
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:37 am    Post subject: Re: T3 rear hatch window fogged Reply with quote

Thanks! It doesn't take much moisture to do that. In my case there wasn't water pooling up or anything, but I could feel the dampness under the cargo mat and see it on the vinyl covering the wheel wells.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:51 am    Post subject: Re: T3 rear hatch window fogged Reply with quote

Of course you should fix any water leaks first, but here is another tip: Since 99% of all rear window defoggers have "evaporated" resistive elements, they won't do the job anymore. So try wiping the glass with a damp towel, to which you have added a drop of dish soap. Let it dry. This will leave a slight white film over the glass. The film will break the surface tension of any condensation, leaving it in a sheet, which won't block your vision. It should last a couple of weeks before you need to clean and re-apply. Then buff it off after things warm up. I used this method for my front Bug windshield until I got the defroster system thoroughly set right.
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kirschwagen
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:51 pm    Post subject: Re: T3 rear hatch window fogged Reply with quote

Donnie strickland wrote:
Thanks! It doesn't take much moisture to do that. In my case there wasn't water pooling up or anything, but I could feel the dampness under the cargo mat and see it on the vinyl covering the wheel wells.


Yup. That's the spot. Just rolled back my rear cargo mat. little quarter size puddle by inner fender well right behind rear seat, drivers side. and some surface rust. wiped it down. condensation gone. guess this is a common problem area. suppose time to start changing my window seals.
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kirschwagen
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:54 pm    Post subject: Re: T3 rear hatch window fogged Reply with quote

KTPhil wrote:
Of course you should fix any water leaks first, but here is another tip: Since 99% of all rear window defoggers have "evaporated" resistive elements, they won't do the job anymore. So try wiping the glass with a damp towel, to which you have added a drop of dish soap. Let it dry. This will leave a slight white film over the glass. The film will break the surface tension of any condensation, leaving it in a sheet, which won't block your vision. It should last a couple of weeks before you need to clean and re-apply. Then buff it off after things warm up. I used this method for my front Bug windshield until I got the defroster system thoroughly set right.


That's a neat tip too. Thanks, KTPhil.
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kirschwagen
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:57 pm    Post subject: Re: T3 rear hatch window fogged Reply with quote

raygreenwood wrote:
Is it just the rear? Condensation indicates water leaking in somewhere...obviously.

It could be anywhere from near the back seat rearward if its just the back glass.

Also is that area is in the shade....it could be water anywhere in the car and just condensing there because thats the coolest spot. Ray


Thanks for the detail, Ray. Rather helpful.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:57 pm    Post subject: Re: T3 rear hatch window fogged Reply with quote

kirschwagen wrote:
KTPhil wrote:
Of course you should fix any water leaks first, but here is another tip: Since 99% of all rear window defoggers have "evaporated" resistive elements, they won't do the job anymore. So try wiping the glass with a damp towel, to which you have added a drop of dish soap. Let it dry. This will leave a slight white film over the glass. The film will break the surface tension of any condensation, leaving it in a sheet, which won't block your vision. It should last a couple of weeks before you need to clean and re-apply. Then buff it off after things warm up. I used this method for my front Bug windshield until I got the defroster system thoroughly set right.


That's a neat tip too. Thanks, KTPhil.


Just to clarify, this is on the INSIDE of the glass.

Use Rain-X on the outside, after a thorough cleaning and (most important) DRYING of the glass.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:03 pm    Post subject: Re: T3 rear hatch window fogged Reply with quote

kirschwagen wrote:
thanks, donnie. guess i'll have to take a closer look then. was hoping is was just caused by really cold sheet metal. may wd40 my rear hatch seal to see if that makes a slight difference. it helped my drivers side door. overall my seals do not look thrashed. but they are about 20 years old now. and side pop out windows never fit quite right.


DO NOT use WD-40 on ANY seals in this car.

WD-40 contains both aliphatic and paraffinic solvents plus naphtha.

Your seals are EDPM. I would use a barely damp cloth wetted with mineral spirits of you needed to clean them if they are greasy (soap and water is better). If you are trying to make them more supple...use silicone oil....not WD-40.

Here is a link to an article on cleaning EPDM from the RV industry direction because most have EDPM sheet roofs.

In gneeral keep solvents off your seasl. Naphtha and most naphthalated solvents are bad for EPDM. Ray
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:32 pm    Post subject: Re: T3 rear hatch window fogged Reply with quote

thanks, ray. understood.
will look for silicone oil for window seals to see if that helps.
what about standard silicone sprays?

as far as the weatherstripping in the doors and rear hatch,
no wd40 on those either? i've seen mixed answers online.
thought those were primarily rubber, not ethylene propylene.

yes. my goal is to perhaps get all seals bit more supple for now.
to see if i can get them conditioned to seal a bit better temporarily, to squeeze a few more miles out of them before having to replace them all. also think if they are more pliable, removal may be easier down the line.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:50 pm    Post subject: Re: T3 rear hatch window fogged Reply with quote

kirschwagen wrote:
thanks, ray. understood.
will look for silicone oil for window seals to see if that helps.
what about standard silicone sprays?

as far as the weatherstripping in the doors and rear hatch,
no wd40 on those either? i've seen mixed answers online.
thought those were primarily rubber, not ethylene propylene.

yes. my goal is to perhaps get all seals bit more supple for now.
to see if i can get them conditioned to seal a bit better temporarily, to squeeze a few more miles out of them before having to replace them all. also think if they are more pliable, removal may be easier down the line.


WD-40 will tell you its fine on anyting.....because they want you to use their product. It has no use on rubber.

There is nothing ...no miracle product.....that will get them to seal better temporarily without damaging them further. Most rubber types shrink with age because solvents leach away. They are not like a sponge. You cannot just pour solvent.....not to mention any old solvent...back into them. The structure changes with age. They have a lifespan.

Products that advertize "rejuvenates rubber".....are solvents that dissolve the surface and swell the rubber. The problem is that once you do that you acclerate the further ageing process.....and they will always shrink back down once the solvents migrate out again.

Plus....in the process of those solvents migrating out of the rubber.....they can attack other surfaces the rubber is touching.....like paints and adhesive.

If the seals are leaking between seal and window opening.....apply a silicone sealant. If a doorvor hatch seal is leaking between where it contacts the body when you close the door because they have squashed or shrunk over the years.....nit much you can do short of replacing the seal or adjusting the door or hatch tighter....which I would not do. Ray
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:58 pm    Post subject: Re: T3 rear hatch window fogged Reply with quote

ok. any particular viscosity of silicone oil if i were to give that a shot?

finding it available for pretty cheap in neat little 2 or 4 oz bottles for RC car enthusiasts filling up their oil shocks and differentials. and for health and beauty supply to add to hand creams and hair oils.

Dimethicone Liquid (Silicone Oil)
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:02 pm    Post subject: Re: T3 rear hatch window fogged Reply with quote

kirschwagen wrote:
ok. any particular viscosity of silicone oil if i were to give that a shot?

finding it available for pretty cheap in neat little 2 or 4 oz bottles for RC car enthusiasts filling up their oil shocks and differentials. and for health and beauty supply to add to hand creams and hair oils.

Dimethicone Liquid (Silicone Oil)


No...not silicone oils.
What I am saying is that if you are already leaking....your gaskets are done for.. Replace them. If you cannot get to them for a while....use a silicone RTV sealant/caulk to fill the gap around the outside or the glass to protect your investment until you cwn get new gaskets.


Silicone oil is a protectant.....not a fix. If you are leaking....there is NOTHING thwt will fix that. However when gaskets and seals are new.....its great for keeping it supple longer.....but once its old ....while it may soften it up a bit on the surface....it will not un-shrink the rubber.

Virtually any of those silicones you listed are decent for treating/softening.....but really you need to replace your seals. Ray
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:50 pm    Post subject: Re: T3 rear hatch window fogged Reply with quote

And it really won't take that long, if you've done it before and have a little experience.

I did the five windows in an afternoon, but I've done two other cars previously.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:39 pm    Post subject: Re: T3 rear hatch window fogged Reply with quote

Donnie strickland wrote:
And it really won't take that long, if you've done it before and have a little experience.

I did the five windows in an afternoon, but I've done two other cars previously.


X2.

And compared to some items......its inexpensive. From ISP West you can buy the whole kit....cal look with or without groove, with or without popouts for $159. Or you can buy it piecemeal. Ray
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:02 pm    Post subject: Re: T3 rear hatch window fogged Reply with quote

I would look into getting a defroster grid for the rear. Like you see on later Squarebacks - like the green one in this post that has a factory grid window. You can buy the copper lines and stick it on like a decal.

You can lube your seals but you will never keep the damp out fully.
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