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simonvdub
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2006
Posts: 17
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 Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:49 am Post subject: Fuel Pump Leak!! Any ideas? |
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Drove my '64 yesterday, no issues. Parked up, checked engine bay as I always do, again looked fine. Got up this morning and there was a really strong smell of gas in the garage. Looked under the bus, gas leak on the floor. In the engine bay, the fuel pump looks to be the source of the leak - it's saturated in gas, fuel all around the base of the pump, around the seals, both fuel lines (new lines 2 months ago) even seems to be sweating out of the top of the pump!
Could there be a pressure build up somehow forcing the gas out of the pump? It's an OG pump rebuilt by the PO. |
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BarryL 
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14269
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Leak!! Any ideas? |
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| simonvdub wrote: |
Drove my '64 yesterday, no issues. Parked up, checked engine bay as I always do, again looked fine. Got up this morning and there was a really strong smell of gas in the garage. Looked under the bus, gas leak on the floor. In the engine bay, the fuel pump looks to be the source of the leak - it's saturated in gas, fuel all around the base of the pump, around the seals, both fuel lines (new lines 2 months ago) even seems to be sweating out of the top of the pump!
Could there be a pressure build up somehow forcing the gas out of the pump? It's an OG pump rebuilt by the PO. |
If you pull the dipstick is the level way high, oil thinned, and real gassy smelling? |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Leak!! Any ideas? |
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| simonvdub wrote: |
Could there be a pressure build up somehow forcing the gas out of the pump? It's an OG pump rebuilt by the PO. |
No. If it is leaking out of the top it is most likely needing the top of the fuel pump carefully checked for screw tightness or a new diaphragm or gasket, depending on whether you have a 40 HP or 1500 or other model of fuel pump.
Do beware of over tightening those screw/s or risk stripping out the threads in the body of the fuel pump. Better to replace a diaphragm or gasket then to destroy a good fuel pump.
Post an image of the fuel pump.
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simonvdub
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2006
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:01 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Leak!! Any ideas? |
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| BarryL wrote: |
| simonvdub wrote: |
Drove my '64 yesterday, no issues. Parked up, checked engine bay as I always do, again looked fine. Got up this morning and there was a really strong smell of gas in the garage. Looked under the bus, gas leak on the floor. In the engine bay, the fuel pump looks to be the source of the leak - it's saturated in gas, fuel all around the base of the pump, around the seals, both fuel lines (new lines 2 months ago) even seems to be sweating out of the top of the pump!
Could there be a pressure build up somehow forcing the gas out of the pump? It's an OG pump rebuilt by the PO. |
If you pull the dipstick is the level way high, oil thinned, and real gassy smelling? |
No. Oil level is fine and not thinned or gassy smelling. |
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simonvdub
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2006
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Leak!! Any ideas? |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
| simonvdub wrote: |
Could there be a pressure build up somehow forcing the gas out of the pump? It's an OG pump rebuilt by the PO. |
No. If it is leaking out of the top it is most likely needing the top of the fuel pump carefully checked for screw tightness or a new diaphragm or gasket, depending on whether you have a 40 HP or 1500 or other model of fuel pump.
Do beware of over tightening those screw/s or risk stripping out the threads in the body of the fuel pump. Better to replace a diaphragm or gasket then to destroy a good fuel pump.
Post an image of the fuel pump. |
There's gas coming out of the lines, gasket, etc.
I assume I can remove the pump without pulling the engine but will have to move the generator out of the way. |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Leak!! Any ideas? |
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Well that fuel pump is not OG!
Might try tightening the center bolt a tad and see if that seals it up, but suspect the upper fuel line is leaking.
Probably will not need to remove the alternator to get the fuel pump out if need be.
Do get a 1500/1600 OG fuel pump sometime soon.
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orangebug60guy
Twin #1
Joined: June 28, 2003
Posts: 1516
Location: South Hadley Mass
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Leak!! Any ideas? |
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That looks like a fuel pump for an engine that should have a generator set up not an alternator set up. It also looks like the fuel lines are larger than the fittings on the fuel pump so you are going to have leaks just because the clamps arent going to hold it very well.
Alternator pump
Generator pump
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Stocknazi
Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 5150
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Leak!! Any ideas? |
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Nice safety wire.
That looks like 1/4 inch fuel line; in my experience, if you don't have the clamps tightened down really well they will leak. Looks like the clamps are bottomed out. Use a smaller clamp, and/or a smaller fuel line. I like to use 3/16 inch line. This is assuming that fuel pump has stock sized fittings.
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simonvdub
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2006
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:31 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Leak!! Any ideas? |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
Well that fuel pump is not OG!
Might try tightening the center bolt a tad and see if that seals it up, but suspect the upper fuel line is leaking.
Probably will not need to remove the alternator to get the fuel pump out if need be.
Do get a 1500/1600 OG fuel pump sometime soon. |
OK, I'm new to this (as you can probably tell!!  ).
Thanks for all of the advice everyone - looks like I'm going to be replacing the fuel lines and the pump. |
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simonvdub
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2006
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:31 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Leak!! Any ideas? |
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| StockNazi wrote: |
Nice safety wire.
That looks like 1/4 inch fuel line; in my experience, if you don't have the clamps tightened down really well they will leak. Looks like the clamps are bottomed out. Use a smaller clamp, and/or a smaller fuel line. I like to use 3/16 inch line. This is assuming that fuel pump has stock sized fittings. |
And replacing the quality safety wire  |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Stocknazi
Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 5150
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:19 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Leak!! Any ideas? |
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| simonvdub wrote: |
| StockNazi wrote: |
Nice safety wire.
That looks like 1/4 inch fuel line; in my experience, if you don't have the clamps tightened down really well they will leak. Looks like the clamps are bottomed out. Use a smaller clamp, and/or a smaller fuel line. I like to use 3/16 inch line. This is assuming that fuel pump has stock sized fittings. |
And replacing the quality safety wire |
I use safety wire on all the pressed in fuel connections as well. Those fittings can and will pull out.
The pump you have looks fairly new; if the fuel pressure is ok and the diaphragm is not leaking it should be fine to use. Try using a smaller clamp and 3/16 inch fuel line.
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WANTED:
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"When the people are afraid of the government, that's tyranny. But when the government is afraid of the people, that's liberty."
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Thomas Jefferson
Last edited by Stocknazi on Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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BarryL
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14269
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:28 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Leak!! Any ideas? |
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| That is a high quality pump probably JP Group Classic Line Denmark Germany example http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1565706. It is exactly like OE inside and the top dome shape is the only difference in the casting. The pivot pin is knurled and the in/out pipes are threaded. You wire looks good as well as the clamps. The hoses might be suspect. See if the top bolt is loose or if the hose that is wet is loose. |
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simonvdub
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2006
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:20 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Leak!! Any ideas? |
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| BarryL wrote: |
| That is a high quality pump probably JP Group Classic Line Denmark Germany example http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1565706. It is exactly like OE inside and the top dome shape is the only difference in the casting. The pivot pin is knurled and the in/out pipes are threaded. You wire looks good as well as the clamps. The hoses might be suspect. See if the top bolt is loose or if the hose that is wet is loose. |
That's the exact pump! The fuel lines are definitely leaking but it appears that the gasket is also. Should I try to rebuild the pump first before buying a new one?
Also, I read somewhere that you can shim the fuel pump with gaskets to reduce the pressure? Could too high a pressure be the problem? Do you think that's worth trying? I just don't understand why the pump wasn't leaking when the engine was running only after it was shut off and parked. |
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Eric&Barb
Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004
Posts: 24764
Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:48 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Leak!! Any ideas? |
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Would see about getting the correct sized fuel line and it would not hurt to buy a new pump at the same time. Having spare parts on the shelf in a box makes it easier to keep your VW working.
If it was a pressure situation, then you would have had engine flooding with fuel and not running due to that.
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simonvdub
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2006
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:02 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Leak!! Any ideas? |
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| Eric&Barb wrote: |
Would see about getting the correct sized fuel line and it would not hurt to buy a new pump at the same time. Having spare parts on the shelf in a box makes it easier to keep your VW working.
If it was a pressure situation, then you would have had engine flooding with fuel and not running due to that. |
OK, new lines and new pump and will see about rebuilding the old one. I have a feeling my spares box is going to be very big as time goes on 
Thanks so much for all of the advice everyone - really appreciate it!!
Off I go to order the pump and lines. |
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BarryL
Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004
Posts: 14269
Location: Casa de Oro, California
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:35 am Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Leak!! Any ideas? |
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I think you should take a look at the fuel lines where they attach. I bet all that is wrong is the clamps (like StockNazi said) are not able to tighten any more as the hose has gotten squishy and/or the clamps are too big.
Here is a thread recommending a kind of hose to get http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=489732&highlight=fuel+hose although the correct size hose (as Eric&Barb recommend) is metric 5 mm as in this thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=593649&highlight=fuel+hose
I doubt you need a new pump but, if you do, don't order from this guy yet http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1565706. I posted that link for the picture only. The pump you actually get has the wrong in and out ports but the photo is correct. I'm currently trying to find out what is up with his ad photo vs the shipped product. Still it is a good pump. The right number is "fuel pump 122 124 126".
Here is a place to get the pump but they list it under a different number wtf http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC-113-127-025-DOE
Another thing is some of the pipes on the pumps have a sharp barb that should be softened with a file. I actually cut off the barb on mine and use it as a straight pipe.
Forget about the "adding gaskets theory" for now as that is not what is happening. That problem shows up at the carb needle and seat.
What is up with that little hose on the right side at the base of your carb? |
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simonvdub
Samba Member
Joined: September 03, 2006
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:21 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Leak!! Any ideas? |
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| BarryL wrote: |
I think you should take a look at the fuel lines where they attach. I bet all that is wrong is the clamps (like StockNazi said) are not able to tighten any more as the hose has gotten squishy and/or the clamps are too big.
Here is a thread recommending a kind of hose to get http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=489732&highlight=fuel+hose although the correct size hose (as Eric&Barb recommend) is metric 5 mm as in this thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=593649&highlight=fuel+hose
I doubt you need a new pump but, if you do, don't order from this guy yet http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1565706. I posted that link for the picture only. The pump you actually get has the wrong in and out ports but the photo is correct. I'm currently trying to find out what is up with his ad photo vs the shipped product. Still it is a good pump. The right number is "fuel pump 122 124 126".
Here is a place to get the pump but they list it under a different number wtf http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC-113-127-025-DOE
Another thing is some of the pipes on the pumps have a sharp barb that should be softened with a file. I actually cut off the barb on mine and use it as a straight pipe.
Forget about the "adding gaskets theory" for now as that is not what is happening. That problem shows up at the carb needle and seat.
What is up with that little hose on the right side at the base of your carb? |
Thanks for all of the links BarryL!
The fuel line says 6.35mm on it so it's definitely the wrong size as StockNazi said and I'll need smaller clamps. Maybe I'll hold off on the pump and just try the lines and clamps first.
Gaskets - OK, will leave that for now. The engine runs fine so I guess it's not a pressure problem then. Engine number starts AK so that makes it a 1973 Beetle unit according to the engine code list here on the Samba.
As for the little hose on the side of the carb, here's a better pic. There are 2 of them. They were there when I bought the bus and I have no idea what they are for.
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Z
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2003
Posts: 2517
Location: galveston, tx
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:39 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Leak!! Any ideas? |
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| simonvdub wrote: |
As for the little hose on the side of the carb, here's a better pic. There are 2 of them. They were there when I bought the bus and I have no idea what they are for.
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Aren't those just home made caps for vacuum ports on the carb? |
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60vwnewengland
Twin #2
Joined: June 25, 2003
Posts: 1784
Location: District of Columbia & Cape Cod
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:02 pm Post subject: Re: Fuel Pump Leak!! Any ideas? |
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Wow! Look at that stud for the carb! I've never seen anything like that. Is it secured with silicone or JBWeld?
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