beetle pedal assembly wont fit on sand rail??

[yitzac1990]

Hey all, building my sand rail and finally got my pedal assembly in. Empi part number 00-4526-B, "New Pedal Assembly VW Volkswagen Beetle Super 1971-1972" I went to install it today, and found that it wont fit! Im not sure why, and im hoping someone can explain what is wrong with this setup. did I accidentally order the wrong pedal assembly? I thought basically all years were the same. Also, the mounting holes in my bracket on the sand rail are smaller than the mounting holes on the pedal assembly.

P.S. - i tried the best I can to get pictures with one hand, while holding the pedals in place with the other.

[Glenn]

I suspect the holes in the mounting plate were put int he wrong place.

Welcome to the wonderful world of aftermarket VW parts.

I'd just drill new holes.
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[yitzac1990]

so the other problem is, that little bump or whatever on the bottom of the pedal box is in the way of the brake pedal on the bottom side. I can see how the holes may have been drilled 1/8 or even 1/4" off, but in order to get this pedal assembly on this box, id have to drill new holes almost 3/4" off of the current holes. which puts the assembly way out of the center of the large circular cut out. seems odd, because i can tell the pedal box pieces are CNC cut...at least more than likely, with how perfect the edges are

[joemama]

Im not sure what is it you are saying is the reason it doesnt fit. The stock vw pan has an adjustable stop that keeps the pedal from rotating too far (cant remember if its the brake or clutch pedal right now), maybe thats the "bump" you are talking about. If you are thinking the gap between the master cylinder rod and the pedal is too large, you are missing a connector that goes on the brake pedal assembly, and the master cylinder rod/piston screws into. Maybe search for an image of a stock pedal assembly in place in a bug, it might answer all your questions.

[Dark Earth]

[Fenix]

I agree with the rotating of the pedals, clutch cable are should be close to vertical. By the looks of the image once you rotate the pedals adding some preload to the spring, the pedal assembly will move back and down enough to bold in. If you look both the back and front holes are misaligned nearly equal.

As for the connector, you will need to find one from a salvage yard, VW shop that scavenged them from old builds, or fabricate your own. At least that is what I was told recently that they do not make aftermarket ones by two separate shops and a popular parts seller. I needed one because my buggies was frozen and would not free up even with heat and Trans fluid/acitone soak.

What are you using for a master cylinder? It does not look like a VW boot, or push rod. You might have to fabricate your own linkage anyway.

[yitzac1990]

yes, i figured out that the "bump" on the pedal box is a stop for the pedals, but if you look at all the pictures, with the pedals tilted forward in the correct position, the "bump" is too big, or something, and it tilts the whole pedal assembly to the side when i try to match the holes up as best I can.

every pedal box for dune buggy/sand rail i have seen has this stop on the bottom of it, and it is not adjustable. i wonder if a previous owner put the stop in himself and put it in the wrong position?? it wouldn't be hard to grind it off and put in a sliding stop like the above pic.

as for the brake cylinder, it is a single output cylinder for a beetle. i made the pushrod, and I plan on making my own clevis to attach to the pedal...that's not the problem i'm facing.

[yitzac1990]

starting to think I ordered the wrong pedal assembly...doing a quick google search reveals the early pedals (pre 66? 67?) are different than what I have. and it seems other sand rails/buggies are using earlier pedals with these aftermarket pedal boxes:

http://www.socalautoparts.com/product_info.php/aft...lt-p-14099

might this be my solution then?

[B Ramsey]

It's a sand rail.fabricate as necessary.
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[Dale M.]

What is center to center distance of mounting holes on chassis bracket ... Bet 100 percent bracket is wrong....

Its typical of most after market chassis and mix & match parts... You just have to make it fit...

VW does not change things just for the fun of it like Detroit.... I will bet all pedal assemblies interchange, its just usually some minor mod like base for accelerator pedal or eliminating grease zerk or going from cast to bent steel pedals is the type of changes VW does...

Can someone offer up dimension of center to center for holes of early pedals, I would BUT I don't have spare set on shelf and its really hard for a old man to climb under dash of FG buggy to get dimensions...

Dale
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[DirtGhost]

If you are tired of the flimsy thin metal ones try these.

.188 3/16 thick metal boxes.

https://www.orangeboxxfabrication.com/product-page/vw-pedal-box
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Orange Boxx Design and Fabrication

[yitzac1990]

i definitely dont mind fabricating, but i would expect a pedal box made specifically for VW pedal assemblies, be able to accept a stock VW pedal assembly, ya know?

I can get any measurements after work today. I would also be interested in knowing the mount hole distance between the 2 different styles of pedal assembly. I also noticed on my pedal assembly, the bottom of the brake pedal has a slight cam profile to it, whereas the earlier style seems to just have a flat stopper on the bottom. that could make for a big difference when considering pedal boxes have those "permanent" stops on the bottom of them.

my current pedal box isnt one of the flimsy ones that I have seen online a lot. it is about 1/4" thick steel, so no worries on that aspect.

[yitzac1990]

[PopPop Jambon]

[dustymojave]

This

and this

are both 1966 and earlier style. They are forged steel and quite strong.

This style is 1967 and later

are stamped steel and rather weak and inclined to break even in road use. My '67 street Bug the brake pedal broke in bumper to bumper traffic on the way home on the freeway. The clutch pedal broke a couple years later, also in heavy freeway traffic on the way to work.

That 2nd pic above shows that the EMPI pedal boxes tend to be QUITE WEAK. Which is why the Orange Boxx pedal boxes linked above are offered made of 1/4" thick steel plate instead of 13-14ga (.075-.095) sheet.
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Offroading VW based cars since 1965
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[yitzac1990]

dusty, thank you for noting the difference! Do you know where I might be able to find a 66 or earlier pedal assembly? Or do you know if, by the looks of my pictures, the old style will bolt on to my pedal box correctly? Because that is what i'm thinking my pedal box is made for.

And yeah i really don't want to have to order a $40 pedal box, when I already have a 1/4" thick pedal box. and might as well go with the stronger pedals, too!

[Dark Earth]

Isn't your pedal leaning back too far and that's why it's sitting on the stop ? Wouldn't rotating the pedal to a more vertical position let it slide into place ?

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[joemama]

The holes dont line up. If it were mine, I would weld up the back hole, and re drill it in the proper spot. Of course I have a welder, so its easy. I dont think new and old style pedals have different hole spacing, I think they are the same.

[Fenix]

Once you rotate the pedals into the correct orientation, how much are they off? I used a visual verification software I have access to and scaling to the photos the misalignment seems very close on each. Could you not just simply ream out one of the holes in the bracket to fit? I mean sand rails are a conglomerate of multiple years and various aftermarket manufactures parts. As with any custom car figment issues and "hole adjustments" are expected. The last 1930 model A I built using all factory 1930 body parts, and I had several holes on the floor pan parts off by over 1/4", and they were purchased from Brookfeild who runs manufactures them from the original Ford Dies.

[yitzac1990]

so when I aligned the pedals for the pictures, i made it so the foot pad was about vertical. If the pedals themselves are vertical, then the foot pads are basically pointing up. See this for reference:

The pedals are leaning forward, but the foot pads are in the correct position for your feet. But either way, I think the "cam" on the bottom of the brake pedal is still too large for it to line up. I tried putting some bolts through the holes in the assembly and box, and it wouldn't sit flush.

I also have a welder and plenty of 1/4" steel plate laying around, but honestly I would rather just get the correct pedals. if the 1966 and earlier pedals are whats "supposed" to fit, i'd rather try those out, instead of frankensteining something.

and like I said, i would expect some holes to be off on aftermarket parts mismatching and whatnot, but when the pedal box is MADE for a stock VW pedal assembly, and I am using a stock VW pedal assembly, I wouldnt expect it to be this bad.

I did read that this set of pedals (1967 and up) can be "made to fit" earlier cars by grinding down some areas, but I cant find what is supposed to be ground down.