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Tram Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003 Posts: 22697 Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: wiring harness differences between B and C |
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chastings wrote: |
So I think part of MY problem is the interchangeability of the names.
I have the TPS/TVS thing straight now.
I've been looking at the Clymers... it doesn't have pix, dangit.
A bigger part of my problem is that SBs issue is intermittent. Its broken now, so I'm pretty happy.
How do I know if the IAD shaft really is loose? It seems fine. Any way to mic it? Or maybe spray some goo from one side into the interior?
Its kinda gross, but I could suck on it?
Again, clutching at straws. |
The four and five pin IADs are different designs. You can't put an A/B TPS on a 4 or 5 prong IAD- the later IAD bolt pattern is too wide for the 2 prong switch.
The way to test for a vacuum leak is first, put your hand over the intake with the engine running and the auxiliary air regulator disconnected & vac line to the IAD plugged. That should stall it out very quickly. If it keeps trying to sputter and run you've got air coming in from somewhere else.
To test the throttle valve, again with the line from the AAR plugged, simply loosen the locknut to your idle adjustment screw and turn the screw all the way in. It should stall. If it BARELY runs you can still use it.
Make sure the throttle valve flap is properly centered and closes all the way. _________________ Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
Bryan67 wrote: |
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chastings Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2010 Posts: 171 Location: Rapid City, SD
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Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: wiring harness differences between B and C |
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IAD
This is the IAD that was replaced by the local guy.
When I put the shaft into the hole, it seems a little loose, but not Too loose.
Why does it matter if the shaft is loose? Its getting a LOT of air from the hole in the IAD inlet, and all of the sensor stuff is BEHIND the shaft.
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chastings Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2010 Posts: 171 Location: Rapid City, SD
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Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:00 pm Post subject: Re: wiring harness differences between B and C |
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I was allowed to post the first 2 pix (the IAD stuff) but not the TVS or silver thing.
SO frustrating |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33883 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: wiring harness differences between B and C |
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What do you by "not allowed"? Was the photo too large? |
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chastings Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2010 Posts: 171 Location: Rapid City, SD
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Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:58 pm Post subject: Re: wiring harness differences between B and C |
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I add the pic, a window comes up that says it was successful, then 20 seconds later a window comes up with my gallery.
The ones of the tvs and silver thing don't have pic next to them; they have a grey "x" in a black box.
The other pix have thumbnails |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33883 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: wiring harness differences between B and C |
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PM EverettB, he can set it right. |
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EverettB Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000 Posts: 69734 Location: Phoenix Metro
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Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: wiring harness differences between B and C |
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chastings wrote: |
I add the pic, a window comes up that says it was successful, then 20 seconds later a window comes up with my gallery.
The ones of the tvs and silver thing don't have pic next to them; they have a grey "x" in a black box.
The other pix have thumbnails |
There is something weird with your photo and the site cannot process it, try opening it and re-saving it. That usually fixes whatever is wrong.
Or feel free to email it to me and I will send it back you in a working format. _________________ How to Post Photos
Everett Barnes - [email protected] | My wanted ads
"Water is the only drink for a wise man" | "Communication prevents complaints"
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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chastings Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2010 Posts: 171 Location: Rapid City, SD
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Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: wiring harness differences between B and C |
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Everett is watching us.
Everett is big brother. |
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chastings Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2010 Posts: 171 Location: Rapid City, SD
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Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:15 pm Post subject: Re: wiring harness differences between B and C |
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got it!
Thanks for telling me to open it and save it.
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chastings Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2010 Posts: 171 Location: Rapid City, SD
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Posted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:16 pm Post subject: Re: wiring harness differences between B and C |
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So what are the bottom 2 pictures of?
I replaced the hose on it, but I don't know what it is or if I should adjust it or...? |
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Mike Fisher Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 17963 Location: Eugene, OR
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:32 am Post subject: Re: wiring harness differences between B and C |
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Fuel System Chapter 4 in the brown Bentley manual says it is a '68-'69 only Pressure Switch. _________________ https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21475 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: wiring harness differences between B and C |
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chastings wrote: |
IAD
This is the IAD that was replaced by the local guy.
When I put the shaft into the hole, it seems a little loose, but not Too loose.
Why does it matter if the shaft is loose? Its getting a LOT of air from the hole in the IAD inlet, and all of the sensor stuff is behind it |
To answer this.....you noted the answer in your question.
The sensor stuff.....meaning the MPS (manifold pressure sensor....which is the load sensor for your fuel injection)....and the pressure switch....that mystery part you replaced the hose on (which is your full load fuel enrichment sensor)........operate by VACUUM.
They sense throttle plate movement by measuring the vacuum change when the throttle plate opens or closes.
If you have air leakimg into the air intake distributor ANYWHERE upstream of the two sensors mentioned......they interpret that leaking air as a change in vacuum....and assume its because you are moving the throttle plate.......and they are sensitive.
So if the throttle cross shaft is leaking.....or if the throttle plate does not fit well or is not centered.....air leaks past these spots....the vacuum is variable in the IAD and the sensors read that as throttle movement.....when you have not moved throttle......and they give erroneous data to the ECU....and the car runs like crap.
Pop the black cap off of the TVS (throttle valve switch....part # 0280 120 040).....in your last picture....and take a picture of it so we can see...
A. The wear if any
B. The wiper arms
C. The circuit board part #.
Too many people get hung up on finding the exact switch part # with the exact number of connecting pins.....and outside of certain models.....its not necessary. Many of these use the exact same circuit board part #....with simply a different pin plug...four or five pin....which makes no difference because the pin plug can be swapped in seconds.
A TVS can have the same circuit board part #.....and have extra features and wiper arms inside that yours does not use.....and it makes no difference. As long as it has the fatirea YOURS uses and you connect it properly.....it will work. Ray |
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Tram Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003 Posts: 22697 Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: wiring harness differences between B and C |
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raygreenwood wrote: |
chastings wrote: |
IAD
This is the IAD that was replaced by the local guy.
When I put the shaft into the hole, it seems a little loose, but not Too loose.
Why does it matter if the shaft is loose? Its getting a LOT of air from the hole in the IAD inlet, and all of the sensor stuff is behind it |
To answer this.....you noted the answer in your question.
The sensor stuff.....meaning the MPS (manifold pressure sensor....which is the load sensor for your fuel injection)....and the pressure switch....that mystery part you replaced the hose on (which is your full load fuel enrichment sensor)........operate by VACUUM.
They sense throttle plate movement by measuring the vacuum change when the throttle plate opens or closes.
If you have air leakimg into the air intake distributor ANYWHERE upstream of the two sensors mentioned......they interpret that leaking air as a change in vacuum....and assume its because you are moving the throttle plate.......and they are sensitive.
So if the throttle cross shaft is leaking.....or if the throttle plate does not fit well or is not centered.....air leaks past these spots....the vacuum is variable in the IAD and the sensors read that as throttle movement.....when you have not moved throttle......and they give erroneous data to the ECU....and the car runs like crap.
Pop the black cap off of the TVS (throttle valve switch....part # 0280 120 040).....in your last picture....and take a picture of it so we can see...
A. The wear if any
B. The wiper arms
C. The circuit board part #.
Too many people get hung up on finding the exact switch part # with the exact number of connecting pins.....and outside of certain models.....its not necessary. Many of these use the exact same circuit board part #....with simply a different pin plug...four or five pin....which makes no difference because the pin plug can be swapped in seconds.
A TVS can have the same circuit board part #.....and have extra features and wiper arms inside that yours does not use.....and it makes no difference. As long as it has the fatirea YOURS uses and you connect it properly.....it will work. Ray |
Ray- the problem is that the OP has a B system with a TWO PRONG throttle switch. It's not only a question of making the switch work, it's also a question of the physical difference in width of the mounting ears on the correct IAD.
OP is better off sticking with the original correct switch on the original correct IAD. _________________ Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
Bryan67 wrote: |
Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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chastings Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2010 Posts: 171 Location: Rapid City, SD
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: wiring harness differences between B and C |
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chastings Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2010 Posts: 171 Location: Rapid City, SD
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: wiring harness differences between B and C |
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So how do I fix the throttle shaft if it IS leaking?
Do I need to get it bushed? Can I put in O-rings, or would they just disintegrate quickly?
The local guy said that he knew the throttle shaft was leaking because he directed starting fluid at the sides of the shaft. I'm assuming that he meant the side with the cable.
Thanks all! |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33883 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:18 pm Post subject: Re: wiring harness differences between B and C |
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It depends what the cause of the leak was. But IAD's come up in the classifieds all the time, and you could ask the seller about playing the shaft before you buy.
To your original question about the difference between a B and C harness, there are many, but with a little more time we might be able to tell you how to modify your C harness to work as a template for a new harness for your original B system. What comes to mind without checking just when the changes occurred:
- terminal numbers (compare Bentley/other diagrams)
- oil/air temp sensor location change (crankcase to IAD)
- head temp sensor location change (changed flange on head)
- TVS wiring (determine if some wires are common to 2- and 4-pin units)
- injector grounding (formerly at each injector pair, later at central "porcupine) |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33883 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: wiring harness differences between B and C |
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Do you have your old IAD with TVS from the shop? |
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chastings Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2010 Posts: 171 Location: Rapid City, SD
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: wiring harness differences between B and C |
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I do, the latest picture of the TVS and IAD that I sent is of the ones that are NOT installed
I'm going to pull off the IAD with the 4 pin plug today, and install the IAD with the 2 pin plug that the car came with. I'll put an o-ring on the shaft to seal it up. If it works, I'll keep it installed.
The problem was so intermittent that I'm just not convinced the IAD was the issue. If it were, it should have been a problem more often. |
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Tram Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003 Posts: 22697 Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: wiring harness differences between B and C |
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chastings wrote: |
I do, the latest picture of the TVS and IAD that I sent is of the ones that are NOT installed
I'm going to pull off the IAD with the 4 pin plug today, and install the IAD with the 2 pin plug that the car came with. I'll put an o-ring on the shaft to seal it up. If it works, I'll keep it installed.
The problem was so intermittent that I'm just not convinced the IAD was the issue. If it were, it should have been a problem more often. |
This. Vacuum leaks in the IAD are not intermittent. A little bit is permissible. I'd suspect a sticky AAR far more. A little bit of synthetic grease on the shaft before installation will help seal very minor leaks and arrest future wear. _________________ Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
Bryan67 wrote: |
Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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chastings Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2010 Posts: 171 Location: Rapid City, SD
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Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: wiring harness differences between B and C |
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Whats a "sticky AAR"?
If its the auxiliary air regulator, I sprayed some starting fluid on it, and the rpm went up. So I gave it a new hose and sprayed it again. Rpm went up. So I took it apart, and sealed the unit with a little RTV. When I reattached everything and sprayed it, rpm stayed the same.
Of course, that's once, and its intermittent problem.
As for it being sticky, inside it looks like a bimetallic spring. How would that stick?
Thanks all! |
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