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Dilemna - '70 Ghia with NO front seats - or tracks
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euro911
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:10 pm    Post subject: Dilemna - '70 Ghia with NO front seats - or tracks Reply with quote

I bought a '70 Ghia that the PO had replaced the floor pans in. I didn't get the original front seats because he said they were in really bad condition. However, he put some heated Subaru seats in it. The Subi seats are comfy, but they're not bolted to the floor, and there are no tracks for the original seats.

I have been working on other items of the car off and on and now getting ready to tackle the seat issue. Some say the seat tracks were welded to the floor pan, some others have said they bolt in. VW engines I know all about, but I'm not that familiar with how seat tracks are mounted - so I'm in need of some guidance with this matter.

Do I just mount the Subi seats? ... or track down (pun not intended) the correct original seats and some tracks?

I found someone selling a set of seats but he doesn't know what year they came from. He says they fit a track with a distance of 18 3/4" between them. Unfortunately, even though that was good to know, it still doesn't help me a whole lot.

Does anybody here know what the track width distance is for a '70?

... and, what to do about sourcing a couple pairs of tracks?

Also, if I do find some tracks, can they be bolted in instead of welding them in? ... the PO glued new carpet to the floor pan Sad

Thanks in advance ...
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Mark S.,
So. Cal, So. Bay
------------------
'70 Karmann Ghia Coupe
'84 Vanagon Westfalia Camper ("Eileen")


Last edited by euro911 on Wed May 09, 2018 6:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NOVA Airhead
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Dilemna - '70 Ghia with NO front seats - or tracks Reply with quote

euro911 wrote:
I bought a '70 Ghia that the PO had replaced the floor pans in. I didn't get the original front seats because he said they were in really bad condition. However, he put some heated Subaru seats in it. The Subi seats are comfy, but they're not bolted to the floor, and there are no tracks for the original seats.

I have been working on other items of the car off and on and now getting ready to tackle the seat issue. Some say the seat tracks were welded to the floor pan, some others have said they bolt in. VW engines I know all about, but I'm not that familiar with how seat tracks are mounted - so I'm in need of some guidance with this matter.

Do I just mount the Subi seats? ... or track down (pun not intended) the correct original seats and some tracks? (and source some '70 seats).

I found someone selling a set of seats but he doesn't know what year they came from. He says they fit a track with a distance of 18 3/4" between them. Unfortunately, even though that was good to know, it still doesn't help me a whole lot.

Does anybody here know what the track width distance is for a '70?

... and, what to do about sourcing a couple pairs of tracks?

Also, if I do find some tracks, can they be bolted in instead of welding them in? ... the PO glued new carpet to the floor pan Sad

Thanks in advance ...


The original tracks would be welded. If you like the Subi seats and can adapt them this would seem to be the path of least resistance - assuming you don't care about originality. Original tracks are not cheap or easy to install. Also original seats are not all that comfortable.

If you do decide to bolt the seats in you should use some heavy metal reinforcements at the attachment points to prevent the seats tearing loose from the pan in the event of an accident.
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Evil_Fiz
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Dilemna - '70 Ghia with NO front seats - or tracks Reply with quote

The distance between the inside face of the seat rails in my 1970 convertible was 463mm (463 mm = 18.228 in.) If the seller measured at the outer edge of the rail lip that would account for the 18.75". I have OE 70 seats on the shelf in the garage, I can measure the track width if needed.

This thread will help you with placement.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=650461&highlight=
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euro911
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Dilemna - '70 Ghia with NO front seats - or tracks Reply with quote

Hey, thanks for the prompt replies, guys.

With sourcing tracks and ruining the carpet to weld them in, acquiring a pair of seats with shipping (and new upholstery), the cost and labor involved is more than I think I want to expend on this project.

I think I'll just fab and bolt in some brackets for the Subi seats. By the way, they are heated seats, so I'll just upgrade to a high amperage alternator and be done with it.

Again, thanks ...
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So. Cal, So. Bay
------------------
'70 Karmann Ghia Coupe
'84 Vanagon Westfalia Camper ("Eileen")
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Dilemna - '70 Ghia with NO front seats - or tracks Reply with quote

euro911 wrote:
Hey, thanks for the prompt replies, guys.

With sourcing tracks and ruining the carpet to weld them in, acquiring a pair of seats with shipping (and new upholstery), the cost and labor involved is more than I think I want to expend on this project.

I think I'll just fab and bolt in some brackets for the Subi seats. By the way, they are heated seats, so I'll just upgrade to a high amperage alternator and be done with it.

Again, thanks ...


Thermal underwear is cheaper than a high amp alternator although I can't see either being necessary in SoCal. Laughing
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Dilemna - '70 Ghia with NO front seats - or tracks Reply with quote

C'mon John. It gets cold in So Cal too. It rained yesterday and I dont think we will even see 70*F today!! Wink
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Dilemna - '70 Ghia with NO front seats - or tracks Reply with quote

c21darrel wrote:
C'mon John. It gets cold in So Cal too. It rained yesterday and I dont think we will even see 70*F today!! Wink

HA. 70? Rolling Eyes
It's 72 here in the corn-patch right now.
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euro911
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Dilemna - '70 Ghia with NO front seats - or tracks Reply with quote

It gets cold here at night, even in the beach area, but more so in the mountains and high desert.

I sourced a set of seat cores for $50. here on the Samba ...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



... disassembled, painted the metalwork, installed new polyester batting, foam padding and reupholstered them with a $210. TMI kit from West Coast Metric.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



I purchased the passenger-side track units (driver-side are back-ordered everywhere), so I'll just have to start on the passenger side for now.

I'll definitely reinforce the [fiberglass] floor pans to spread the load over a larger area.
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Mark S.,
So. Cal, So. Bay
------------------
'70 Karmann Ghia Coupe
'84 Vanagon Westfalia Camper ("Eileen")


Last edited by euro911 on Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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iowegian Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 4:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Dilemna - '70 Ghia with NO front seats - or tracks Reply with quote

euro911 wrote:
It gets cold here at night, even in the beach area, but more so in the mountains and high desert.

I sourced a set of seat cores for $50. here on the Samba ...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



... disassembled, painted the metalwork, installed new polyester batting, foam padding and reupholstered them with a $210. TMI kit from West Coast Metric.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



I purchased the passenger-side track units (driver-side are back-ordered everywhere), so I'll just have to start on the passenger side for now.

I'll definitely reinforce the [fiberglass] floor pans to spread the load over a larger area.[/url]

Lookin' good.
And it's probably safe to assume that you will bolt, rather than weld, the tracks to the fiberglass pan. Wink
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euro911
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 7:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Dilemna - '70 Ghia with NO front seats - or tracks Reply with quote

Yeah, I'll definitely be bolting. I'll install some flat aluminum plates under the floor pans - bolt through the tracks, pans then the plates to spread out the load.

Also, I'm going to pull the upholstery off and add a thicker layer of foam in the passenger seat ... it looks a little wimpy.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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Mark S.,
So. Cal, So. Bay
------------------
'70 Karmann Ghia Coupe
'84 Vanagon Westfalia Camper ("Eileen")


Last edited by euro911 on Mon May 07, 2018 5:33 pm; edited 2 times in total
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euro911
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PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2018 5:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Dilemna - '70 Ghia with NO front seats - or tracks Reply with quote

Had two deaths in my family in 2017, and handling the estates took up a lot of spare time, but I'm back at it now. I sourced a couple decent track clips for both driver and passenger sides out of a late Ghia ... came from a boneyard in AZ. I blasted the minimal rust off and painted them black. Here's the passenger side:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



I pulled the carpet up to see what has to happen to get them secured in place. There appears enough overlap on the sides of the clips to weld them in, so I'll trace the outline on the pan and give the saws-all a good workout.

One of my neighbors says he can weld them in place, so I think were' on the right track (pun intended)
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Mark S.,
So. Cal, So. Bay
------------------
'70 Karmann Ghia Coupe
'84 Vanagon Westfalia Camper ("Eileen")


Last edited by euro911 on Wed May 09, 2018 6:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 7:19 am    Post subject: Re: Dilemna - '70 Ghia with NO front seats - or tracks Reply with quote

wait... what? did you replace the fiberglass pans with steel at some point?
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euro911
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2018 2:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Dilemna - '70 Ghia with NO front seats - or tracks Reply with quote

The front floor pans are partially original - about half-way through where the seats will sit. It's going to take some more head scratching, but I think I see a clear path now Idea
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'84 Vanagon Westfalia Camper ("Eileen")
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 5:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Dilemna - '70 Ghia with NO front seats - or tracks Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Not that it helps but these are Mazda 626 seats on Scat Procar seat rails.
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euro911
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PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 10:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Dilemna - '70 Ghia with NO front seats - or tracks Reply with quote

Wow, your interior looks awesome. I'm trying to keep my Ghia pretty much stock (except for the bumpers and exhaust) for future resale value.

I replaced the front & rear shift linkage bushings today - and man, what a freeking job that was. If I ever have a VW that I plan to keep, definitely going to install a bronze front bushing, so I'll never have to do it again.

Cleaned up all the parts real good

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



and painted a couple items ...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



Re-greased all the right locations and installed a quick-shift kit while I was in there

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.



... and it appears to have done the trick ... sloppy shifting is gone

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I recently rebuilt the braking system, replaced torn ball joints and tie rod ends, and replaced a broken speedo cable. Going to tackle the seat track issue next ... and have a new TMI salt & pepper loop carpet kit on order for when that's done.
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So. Cal, So. Bay
------------------
'70 Karmann Ghia Coupe
'84 Vanagon Westfalia Camper ("Eileen")
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euro911
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Dilemna - '70 Ghia with NO front seats - or tracks Reply with quote

Took the Ghia out for a short drive this afternoon and I love the short shifter (as well as the much improved shifting due to the new bushings) Very Happy
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'84 Vanagon Westfalia Camper ("Eileen")
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PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2018 8:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Dilemna - '70 Ghia with NO front seats - or tracks Reply with quote

Installed one of those in my 70 beetle... Loved it.
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