Drum Brake Rubbing, Adjusting Not Helping

[Filthy Dub]

Aaaaaaand I'm back with more problems

Good news is the bus is running great, got new tires on, but now there's a new issue.

After I got some help on here from you very considerate people and the bus was ready for a test drive, I noticed the driver side rear drum was stuck ... likely from leaving the parking brake on.

Eventually I got it off after backing off the adjusters (which were pretty stiff) and some bangs with a hammer. The drum was still hard to remove even after that. I also decided to replace the wheel cylinder (because I had done the other side recently) while I was in there.

After that I got everything back on and bled the brakes, but now it felt like the shoes were still rubbing. I backed them off as far as I could (one side was fairly easy, the other eventually required a hammer and screwdriver to adjust), but it still sounds like it's rubbing after coasting down my street and they also felt hot.

Any thoughts?
_________________
1971 Westfalia Bay Window Bus

[aeromech]

Here's a pic from a 1968 bus that shoes the rear shoes only hitting on the ends because the radius of the shoe doesn't match the drum

You can see daylight when the shoe is laid into the removed drum

So we attached the drum to the wheel for support and then used sandpaper lining the drum to contour the brake shoe

It was a real bitch but solved the problem
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

[Filthy Dub]

[aeromech]

Doubtful unless you just did some heavy braking
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

[lil-jinx]

Did you free up and put antiseize on the adjusters when you had the drum off,I assume you did seeing as how you had to use a hammer to back them off,whichs begs the question ,why did you have to use a hammer and screw driver to adjust the brakes?
_________________
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620186
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=668799
1974 Bay Westfalia. she likes to be called Ethel.
1968 Dune Buggy
1974 parts bus
A smart man learns from his mistakes,a very smart man learns from other's mistakes.

[Filthy Dub]

[richparker]

I was taught that the shoes should rub on the drum a bit when you adjust them. Not enough to stop the wheel from spinning but slightly scraping when the wheel is spun.

I'd pull the drum and get those adjusters working properly and try again. I wouldn't worry about "arking" the shoes, they will wear in no time.
_________________
__________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build
’63 Deluxe Build

[notchboy]

Just don't breath too much and inhale that quality asbestos from China or Canada.
_________________

[Filthy Dub]

[richparker]

The rear is going to be harder to spin then the front because you're turning the transaxle. I go with a pretty free turning wheel with a slight scrape. The high sections of the shoe will scrape which will wear down over time and then your shoe will match the curve of the drum. I've found that I adjust my drums every 1500 miles or so.
_________________
__________
’71 Westy build
Adventure thread
’65 Deluxe Build
’63 Deluxe Build

[Wildthings]

Adjust the brakes up until you can no longer spin the drums and then back them off 3-4 notches. Test drive and see if the brake drums get excessively hot. If too hot then back the adjusters off another notch or two and retest. Watch the brake temp carefully for the first couple of hundred miles.

[old DKP driver]

Gee, Perhaps Gary should have clarified that his pictures were from the
Front brakes.So as NOT to let the O.P. think that there should be 2 wheel
cylinders per side on the REAR of his Bus.

Filthy Dub, seeing where you are from and that fact that it is possible to
have excessive surface rust built up on the backing plates & drum then
you should wire brush all the surfaces and lubricate the contact points of the
backing plates where the shoes touch.

also lube the e-brake lever pivot at the lining
re-torque the axle nut to spec. found in the Bentley Repair Manual.

And, as Rich Parker mentioned lube the adjusters so it is easy down the
road to do the basics.
_________________
V.W.owner since 1967

[Abscate]

The adjusters need to be removed, made shiny, greased...you should be able to flip on the adjuster teeth with the smallest screwdriver you own.

Once the wheel locks up, back off 3, test drive, just like man says.

Freewheeling is too loose. If you adjusted lot of freeplay, like more than 5 clicks, go up front and pump brakes to recently, then readjust everything again.

I think a lot of people adjust these too loose.
_________________
.ssS!

[aeromech]

Gee, Perhaps Gary should have clarified that his pictures were from the
Front brakes

Ha! You're right. I should have remembered better. Oh well. Front or back, the fact is that the quality of brake shoes seems to be questionable these days. The reason we arced those shoes was to stop a terrible squeal caused by heavy brakinging.
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

[3ftDeep]

Just another quick thought on this.
I had a rear brake rubbing / getting hot on my '69 early bay.
I did the same as you; changed / cleaned / adjusted everything on the actual drum.

It would spin freely when initially set up then rub / get hot when used.

The problem was the rubber flexi brake hose to the drum. The inside of the hose degrades and closes the passage of the brake fluid. A push on the brake pedal has the power to push fluid to the drum cylinder but the springs on the shoes are the only thing to force the cylinder piston back, which isn't nearly enough. So, the piston stays out.
The fluid might slowly seep back over time, freeing it up again but push the brake pedal & it starts all over again.
The force of the pedal also has the ability to enable brake bleeding, which is why it's not an obvious fault.
Also, the outside of the hose looked fine.

You can tell if this is an issue by taking that flexi hose off, blowing air thought it (careful if you do this directly with your mouth; brake fluid is nasty stuff). It should be easy. Mine was completely closed. I went blue in the face trying : )

edit: It was a while ago that I did this on mine so can't really remember exactly what I did but, I was just thinking, what you can do to test without removing anything, other than the drum.
So, take the rear drum off, get someone to gently push the brake pedal (not too far / fast as the drum isn't there to stop the pistons falling out)
Once the pistons are out, release the brake pedal & see if the pistons return. If not, try pushing them. They shouldn't have too much resistance. If they don't move, I'd suggest the hose is the problem.

If this is the issue, probably best to change all four flexi hose, front & rear.

Might be worth a look.

Cheers

Gary (a different one : )

[Tom Powell]

x2 on the rubber hoses. BTDT

Aloha
tp

[Filthy Dub]

I took out the star adjusters, lubricated them and cleaned a few other brake components before realizing it was probably the dust cover that was actually rubbing.

I think the PO had bent it (or myself maybe) and it was just slightly dragging in a few spots along the drum.

Seems to be good for now at least.
_________________
1971 Westfalia Bay Window Bus