Lowlight external oil cooler advice needed

[catahoula lou]

Group:

I have a 1958 lowlight Ghia with the square support bar that's part of the underside of the package area, above the transaxle, where I would like to mount an external oil cooler.

A little background first. I've been running an EMPI 1/2" 8-pass cooler (part no. 9223, see link below) in the full-flow 40HP in my 1959 ragtop bug for over 20 years with no problems.

http://vwcatalog.empius.com/vwcatalog/2016/49.html

However, I noticed that the vertical distance in my lowlight is significantly less than that for the bug, so I took measurements of my 9223 oil cooler, made a cardboard mock-up of it, and tried to fit it in the space. Unfortunately, the mock-up is pressed right down onto the top of the transaxle.

So, I then repeated the process with a mock-up of the EMPI 1/2" 6-pass cooler (part no. 9276, see link above), and it appears to fit nicely, even with the support bar.

Has anyone any suggestions (other cooler, etc) before I buy a 9276, trash the fins on installation and find out it actually does not fit (I was very careful making the mock-up), resulting in something I can't take back to the store?

I'm running a 1600DP (stock doghouse oil cooler) with an EMPI oil pump/filter and want to change over to the oil pump full-flow cover, remote oil filter, and external oil cooler, as the Inland Empire area of CA gets very hot during the summers.

I would prefer to not use a cooler equipped with a fan...

Engine is tuned just fine, if you were wondering.

Best,
Thom
_________________
1 great wife
2 Catahoula Leopard Dogs (Mahogany Star and Spartan) - RIP Lucy, Braveheart, & Dusty!
1 1959 mango green Ragtop Bug (the "Mango")
1 1958 pantina red Lowlight Ghia (the "Chili Pepper")

Still looking for:
(1) My Dad's 1955 356 (he raced it amateur-class at Riverside and other courses during 1950s),
(2) My parent's black 1955 hardtop bug (CA license plate FWC 201 or FWG 201), and
(3) My parent's agave green 1957 ragtop bug (CA license plate LFK 734).

[rockerarm]

Hi Thom. Why not consider the Mesa style cooler. I believe they are much thinner. EMPI makes a similar unit.
Bill

[VeloMikey]

This is what I have. Setrab fan pack clamped to the torsion housing with a 180 degree switch. I don't know why you don't want to run a fan especially in the 909. Setrab makes the cooler without the fan too. $450 for the cooler, fan and brackets. The best part is no drilling holes in the body sheet metal!

_________________
'58 Ghia 2387cc with a Berg / Folts 5 Speed

Ghia Build Thread https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768748

[catahoula lou]

Rockerarm:

Are you talking about the following Mesa?

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/MESA-Oil-Cooler-48-Plate-Cooler-ONLY-p/3080-11.htm

It is a good 3/4" thinner than the EMPI 9276. Hopefully, can plumb with same tubing as my ragtop in case I want to put the 1600 in it down the road...

Best,
Thom
_________________
1 great wife
2 Catahoula Leopard Dogs (Mahogany Star and Spartan) - RIP Lucy, Braveheart, & Dusty!
1 1959 mango green Ragtop Bug (the "Mango")
1 1958 pantina red Lowlight Ghia (the "Chili Pepper")

Still looking for:
(1) My Dad's 1955 356 (he raced it amateur-class at Riverside and other courses during 1950s),
(2) My parent's black 1955 hardtop bug (CA license plate FWC 201 or FWG 201), and
(3) My parent's agave green 1957 ragtop bug (CA license plate LFK 734).

[rockerarm]

Morning Thom. Roger that. I believe they are available in 48,72,96 plate sizes. As you are probably aware EMPI has "duplicated" them, but when browsing the Bill & Steve's store noticed the EMPI ones stated no warranty on cooler, so don't know if that would influence your decision on the Mesa vs EMPI.
John at aircooled.net also sells the seatrab that Mikey spoke about. I would ask John about any data he may have regarding temp drop at entry vs exit on any of the coolers, especially without the fan usage.
Hope this helps, Bill.

[catahoula lou]

Thanks, guys!

Best,
Thom
_________________
1 great wife
2 Catahoula Leopard Dogs (Mahogany Star and Spartan) - RIP Lucy, Braveheart, & Dusty!
1 1959 mango green Ragtop Bug (the "Mango")
1 1958 pantina red Lowlight Ghia (the "Chili Pepper")

Still looking for:
(1) My Dad's 1955 356 (he raced it amateur-class at Riverside and other courses during 1950s),
(2) My parent's black 1955 hardtop bug (CA license plate FWC 201 or FWG 201), and
(3) My parent's agave green 1957 ragtop bug (CA license plate LFK 734).

[slalombuggy]

Hundreds of thousands of ACVWs ran around Africa, Mexico, Australia, and many other hotter climates than yours with only a stock doghouse cooler. Personally I would run your engine without the additional cooler and run it only if warranted. Above the transmission is a dead air space, without a fan the cooler is doing next to nothing so you probably won't see a difference in oil temps even if you do use it.

brad

[John Moxon]

If all you're running is a 1600cc DP the doghouse cooler is all you need. So many people think they can improve on the VW engineer's tried and tested set-up (and there a lots of threads that bear whitness) only to find their engine runs hotter with an external oil cooler.

Here's just one of them: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=167110

The doghouse was a major improvement in engine cooling.
_________________
John.
Judson Supercharger Information on The Samba
My 1958 Shorrock Supercharged Karmann Ghia
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[didget69]

Stay with stock Dog House cooler setup, as an external cooler without a fan is just asking for trouble...

Make sure all of the cooling tins & bits are in place, and refoam the cooler -

bnc
_________________
I never found the need to impress people with any mechanic certifications, trophies or track wins... unless it was for Mom to post on the refrigerator door.

[rtroy]

I installed an extra (second) cooler on my 1959 Land Speed Record Karmann Ghia back in 2009 and set a few records with it.

It's vital that you NOT remove the original oil cooler!

Having a SECOND cooler is OK, though as other people have pointed out, you may not need it. I'm running my compression ratio WAY up at a ridiculous level for racing with my Denzel engine, so it generates a LOT more heat, and I'm running oil squirters to get heat out of the pistons and that heats the oil a LOT more than normal. So, a second cooler. My setup takes the oil out at the pump, flows it through a full-flow filter, then to a thermostat that only flows oil through the cooler when the oil is hot. I run 20/50 Castrol GTX oil.

As for location, I disagree with slalombuggy about the above the transaxle space. It's a bad location if this is for your ONLY oil cooler, but it gets plenty of air when moving and it's a safe location in terms of road debris. However, I like the idea of using the torson bar tube that ServeloMikey pointed out, that is, presuming you can set it up so it's not in the way of the suspension or brake movement.

Skip the extra fan.

You can see my setup here:

http://GhiaCoachworks.com/share/Bonneville/denzel_lsr.html

The cooling system, in particular, is here:

http://GhiaCoachworks.com/share/Bonneville/lsr_cooling_system.html

Good luck!
_________________
Richard

Karmann Ghia and Porsche 356 enthusiast
Founder, The Karmann Ghia Club of N. America

[rtroy]

Oops!

First, I didn't give you the link to the oiling system!

http://ghiacoachworks.com/share/Bonneville/lsr_oiling.html

AND, I can see now that I didn't apparently post any photos of the cooler on the Denzel LSR page(s) except this one, which doesn't really show it very well:

http://ghiacoachworks.com/share/images/lsr_cooler_hoses_1.jpg

Rats! Well, it's an EMPI, one size up from the smallest. I drilled four holes through the sheet metal and mounted it directly to the body. Yes, ouch, but this is a race car! :-)
_________________
Richard

Karmann Ghia and Porsche 356 enthusiast
Founder, The Karmann Ghia Club of N. America

[coopster]

[crocteau]

[VeloMikey]

Google Foothill Fabricatiom. The owners name is Aaron.
_________________
'58 Ghia 2387cc with a Berg / Folts 5 Speed

Ghia Build Thread https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=768748