Author |
Message |
drscope Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2007 Posts: 15273 Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA
|
Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thats it. _________________ Mother Nature is a Mean Evil Bitch! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
veedubfreak59 Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2010 Posts: 228 Location: Denver, CO
|
Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Quote: |
Early cars have IRS, just NOT double jointed IRS |
That's why I put IRS in quotes |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Helfen Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009 Posts: 3450 Location: Vulcania
|
Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
veedubfreak59 wrote: |
Quote: |
Early cars have IRS, just NOT double jointed IRS |
That's why I put IRS in quotes |
I guess I stated it incorrectly as I should have said " Early cars have IRS not just later cars with double jointed IRS.
I remember seeing old advertisements for early VW's with swing axles touting the superiority of Independent Rear suspension "IRS" over domestic's straight rear axle.
Here is another one; some people will call incorrectly call a VW engine case a block!
Or a gasoline engine a motor.
Or saying Barack Obama is black or African American....I'm sure his mother and grandparents on his mothers side would appreciate if alive! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
61SNRF Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2009 Posts: 4657 Location: Whittier 90602
|
Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Helfen wrote: |
Or a gasoline engine a motor.
|
I thought "motor" was German for "Engine" _________________ -Bruce
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Helfen Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009 Posts: 3450 Location: Vulcania
|
Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
61SNRF wrote: |
Helfen wrote: |
Or a gasoline engine a motor.
|
I thought "motor" was German for "Engine" |
You are correct, but we speak English. If you have spoke German you will also know that the language is more non specific (unless when it comes to gender) than English. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
61SNRF Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2009 Posts: 4657 Location: Whittier 90602
|
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
Helfen wrote: |
61SNRF wrote: |
Helfen wrote: |
Or a gasoline engine a motor.
|
I thought "motor" was German for "Engine" |
You are correct, but we speak English. If you have spoke German you will also know that the language is more non specific (unless when it comes to gender) than English. |
But I thought "English" was a "Germanic" language...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_languages
...and does it not sound better to say..."America's Motorway's" than "America's Engineway's"?
Sorry Helfen, just had to. You can kick me now. _________________ -Bruce
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Helfen Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009 Posts: 3450 Location: Vulcania
|
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
61SNRF wrote: |
Helfen wrote: |
61SNRF wrote: |
Helfen wrote: |
Or a gasoline engine a motor.
|
I thought "motor" was German for "Engine" |
You are correct, but we speak English. If you have spoke German you will also know that the language is more non specific (unless when it comes to gender) than English. |
But I thought "English" was a "Germanic" language...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_languages
...and does it not sound better to say..."America's Motorway's" than "America's Engineway's"?
Sorry Helfen, just had to. You can kick me now. |
Your right again, the original English was German because the invaders of the British Isles were Germanic tribes ( Angles, Saxons and Jutes ) and they pushed the indigenous people ( Celts ) into Wales, Scotland. Today when you hear the words Anglo Saxons you think about the English people. I reality your talking about German tribes that invaded and rule England. That is also why Hitler didn't really want to fight England as he considered the English to be brothers. But the beauty of the English language today is it's composed of German, Latin, Greek, French, Scandinavian etc. Words and by the usage of those many different words you can describe thoughts in greater detail than any other language. Hence, we use the name Engine for internal and external combustion engines....I mean you wouldn't call a steam engine a steam motor would you? In German a steam engine is called a dampfmachine, not a dampfmotor...! see how vague and nondescript it can be.
This ability to describe things in greater detail is most likely the reason English is called the universal language...a example would be air traffic control to aircraft and communication is in English no matter where you go in the world. Another example would be India where there are hundreds, if not thousands of Indian dialects. When the English gave up India as a colony the Indians still used English to tie all it's peoples together....Indian law and government is all done in English and English law. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
neil68 Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2007 Posts: 3440 Location: Calgary, Canada
|
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:25 pm Post subject: motor |
|
|
Def'n-MOTOR: a comparatively small and powerful engine, especially an internal-combustion engine in an automobile, motorboat, or the like. _________________ Neil.
Der Kleiner Rennwagens
68 Beetle 2332 cc, 204 WHP
12.5 seconds @ 107 mph
Dynojet Test: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9B_H3eklAo |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Helfen Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009 Posts: 3450 Location: Vulcania
|
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: motor |
|
|
neil68 wrote: |
Def'n-MOTOR: a comparatively small and powerful engine, especially an internal-combustion engine in an automobile, motorboat, or the like. |
en·gine (njn)
n.
1.
a. A machine that converts energy into mechanical force or motion.
b. Such a machine distinguished from an electric, spring-driven, or hydraulic motor by its use of a fuel. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
drscope Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2007 Posts: 15273 Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA
|
Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The swing axle/IRS and engine/motor arguments will never be solved or won.
Yes a swing axle is an Independant rear suspension. But the term IRS when relating to VW's really came into play with the introduction of the double jointed IRS rear axle set up.
Correct or not, when anyone refers to IRS in a bug, we know they mean an IRS double joint set up.
As for the engine/motor argument...It was Ford Motor company that built gasoline powered automobiles. Not Ford Engine company.
Its an engine except in German where it is a motor. But we are not supposed to refer to it as a motor in our German cars when speaking about them in english.
I'm one for using the proper terminology whenever possible. It really helps when people asking for help use the right terminology.
But these 2 subjects just need to be overlooked because in both circumstances there are plenty of examples to support both sides of the argument. _________________ Mother Nature is a Mean Evil Bitch! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jtwaller Samba Member
Joined: January 30, 2012 Posts: 345 Location: HIDEAWAY, TX
|
Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
60sunroof wrote: |
I.R.S for off road and all around driving.
Swing for drag racing. |
IRS for off-road? The last time I checked all buggies and bajas either had swing axles or wished they did. _________________ 1967 Daily Driver
..[-_-_-_-]..
*/l_____l\*
( O \ ! / O )
1973 Thing
1969 Squareback
1967 Bug
1968 Bug
1971 Bug
mark tucker wrote: |
the more you stroke it the better it feals.bore it out while your there, you will like it if you do it corectly. watch out for the ones that are used and abused, they can be headaches.well all of them can be headaches. |
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Helfen Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009 Posts: 3450 Location: Vulcania
|
Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
drscope wrote: |
The swing axle/IRS and engine/motor arguments will never be solved or won.
Yes a swing axle is an Independant rear suspension. But the term IRS when relating to VW's really came into play with the introduction of the double jointed IRS rear axle set up.
Correct or not, when anyone refers to IRS in a bug, we know they mean an IRS double joint set up.
As for the engine/motor argument...It was Ford Motor company that built gasoline powered automobiles. Not Ford Engine company.
Its an engine except in German where it is a motor. But we are not supposed to refer to it as a motor in our German cars when speaking about them in english.
I'm one for using the proper terminology whenever possible. It really helps when people asking for help use the right terminology.
But these 2 subjects just need to be overlooked because in both circumstances there are plenty of examples to support both sides of the argument. |
First, every German knows what your talking about when you say engine. I've got enough relatives and friends over there that will tell you English is the second language that almost everybody knows. Funny when speaking to friends from Germany that they always say engine in English.
I love these old advertisements of the 50's, apparently they knew they had IRS, but derscope, your a respected guy here by myself and others on this forum so don't you think it's time to correct the wrong here? When the water boxer engine came out did we stop calling air cooled engines boxers? No of course not. Why follow what some idiot started back 1968 (A/T) 1969 ? People look up to you so do what's the right thing to do.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/lit/50hoffmanbeetle/2.jpg
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/lit/rob4/51split/page2.jpg
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/lit/65this_is_whathappens/right3.jpg |
|
Back to top |
|
|
drscope Samba Member
Joined: February 19, 2007 Posts: 15273 Location: Baltimore, Maryland USA
|
Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
Helfen, I agree with you! Its just that these two arguments will only be solved after the slammed and narrowed versus stock argument gets solved.
Some battles will just never be won. So sometimes its better to just grit your teeth and get on with the job at hand.
I agree the correct terminolgy should be used at all times and I do my best to encourage that. But I have learned to accept things when someone tells me their motor is making bad noises.
That statement is often followed by something like - I was at such and such a place (10 to 15 miles away) and the oil light came on. So I drove here as fast as I could! _________________ Mother Nature is a Mean Evil Bitch! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
fred g Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2004 Posts: 222 Location: So. NH / Santa Maria, Azores.
|
Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
The 1966 Volkswagen Type 1 is the acme of automotive evolution.
It incorporates both a motor and an engine and utilizes swing arm rear suspension. Attempts to better the swing arm technology in 1967 began the
de-evolutionary slide of the Type 1 leading to plastic dashboards, round windshields, petroleum based seat cushions, Macpherson struts and devices that emitted noises when the doors were opened.
I long for the days of chromed metal bumpers, wooden boats and Latin mass.
FG _________________ 71 Kombi Rusty the 'Afront'
"Buy the ticket, take the ride." H.S Thompson |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Helfen Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009 Posts: 3450 Location: Vulcania
|
Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 10:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
fred g wrote: |
The 1966 Volkswagen Type 1 is the acme of automotive evolution.
It incorporates both a motor and an engine and utilizes swing arm rear suspension. Attempts to better the swing arm technology in 1967 began the
de-evolutionary slide of the Type 1 leading to plastic dashboards, round windshields, petroleum based seat cushions, Macpherson struts and devices that emitted noises when the doors were opened.
I long for the days of chromed metal bumpers, wooden boats and Latin mass.
FG |
Scholae catholicae profectum debes! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
79SuperVert Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2002 Posts: 9758 Location: Elizabeth, NJ & La Isla Del Encanto
|
Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
Helfen wrote: |
....I mean you wouldn't call a steam engine a steam motor would you? |
Maybe not today, but...
From Scientific American from the 1890's:
A Steam Street Railway Motor
While in Paris, President Yerkes, of the North Chicago Street Railway Company, purchased a noiseless steam motor, the results in experimenting with which will be watched with great interest. The accompanying engraving, for which we are indebted to the Street Railway Review, gives a very accurate idea of the general external appearance. The car is all steel throughout, except windows, doors and ceiling. It is 12 ft. long, 8 ft. wide, and 9 ft. high, and weighs about seven tons. The engines, which have 25 horse power and are of the double cylinder pattern, are below the floor and connected directly to the wheels. The wheels are four in number and 31 in. in diameter. The internal appearance and general arrangement of machinery, etc., is about that of the ordinary steam dummy. It will run in either direction, and the exhaust steam is run through a series of mufflers which suppress the sound, condense the steam and return the water to the boiler, which occupies the center of the car. The motor was built in Ghent, Belgium, and cost about $5,000, custom house duties amounting to about $2,000 more. - The Railway Review.
_________________ Central Jersey VW Society
Wanted: Art Collins VW (Savannah, Georgia) items - license plate surrounds and other items. Also ivory "AM", "FM" and "SW" buttons for a US Blaupunkt Frankfurt. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Helfen Samba Member
Joined: January 19, 2009 Posts: 3450 Location: Vulcania
|
Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
79SuperVert wrote: |
Helfen wrote: |
....I mean you wouldn't call a steam engine a steam motor would you? |
Maybe not today, but...
From Scientific American from the 1890's:
A Steam Street Railway Motor
While in Paris, President Yerkes, of the North Chicago Street Railway Company, purchased a noiseless steam motor, the results in experimenting with which will be watched with great interest. The accompanying engraving, for which we are indebted to the Street Railway Review, gives a very accurate idea of the general external appearance. The car is all steel throughout, except windows, doors and ceiling. It is 12 ft. long, 8 ft. wide, and 9 ft. high, and weighs about seven tons. The engines, which have 25 horse power and are of the double cylinder pattern, are below the floor and connected directly to the wheels. The wheels are four in number and 31 in. in diameter. The internal appearance and general arrangement of machinery, etc., is about that of the ordinary steam dummy. It will run in either direction, and the exhaust steam is run through a series of mufflers which suppress the sound, condense the steam and return the water to the boiler, which occupies the center of the car. The motor was built in Ghent, Belgium, and cost about $5,000, custom house duties amounting to about $2,000 more. - The Railway Review.
|
They are contradicting themselves aren't they ! Describing the motive power the coach uses it say's:
The engines, which have 25 horse power and are of the double cylinder pattern, are below the floor and connected directly to the wheels. The wheels are four in number and 31 in. in diameter. The internal appearance and general arrangement of machinery. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
79SuperVert Samba Member
Joined: May 31, 2002 Posts: 9758 Location: Elizabeth, NJ & La Isla Del Encanto
|
Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
My guess is that by "engines" they meant the steam cylinders that drive the pistons and connecting rods to the wheels. Strange terminology since by that time (the 1880's) surely people referred to steam locomotives as "engines" and not as "motors". They may also have meant "motor" to be a small self-contained and self-propelled vehicle. In any case I was just messin' with you. _________________ Central Jersey VW Society
Wanted: Art Collins VW (Savannah, Georgia) items - license plate surrounds and other items. Also ivory "AM", "FM" and "SW" buttons for a US Blaupunkt Frankfurt. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
zuk Samba Member
Joined: April 08, 2017 Posts: 20 Location: Winchester, va
|
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:00 am Post subject: Re: Swing Axle VS. IRS !! Beat this to death.. |
|
|
here's a good vid showing the m151 military jeep which orginaly cam with a swing arm suspension, shows how the swing arm performs, they then switched to a IFS per say
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqLbcHYN1hM |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Motomazzo Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2009 Posts: 792 Location: Texas
|
Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
Fowvay wrote: |
germanpride wrote: |
swing axle cars look badass when slammed |
I'm not picking on you or anything but are you saying you actually like the acute angles created by slamming a swinger?
I personally much prefer the straight up and down of an IRS rear end for slamming as it gives a much better contact patch and doesnt make it look like the rear wheels are broken.
Tom aka Fowvay |
Amen to that. Camber is a ridiculous look. To each his own, but I've always thought it looks like something is broken. Not to mention the litany of mechanical issues that go along with it. I saw a post the other day of a guy who made his own front end. Impressive work, but in the end, the front wheels had camber too! Dumbest look I've ever seen. The only thing worse than camber on the rear wheels is camber on the front too. Again, to each his own. It's not for me.
JAM _________________ Be Plant-Strong!! Watch "Forks Over Knives" on Netflix
'66 Sedan Project - http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=410718
R.I.P. - Mikayla. I miss you Baby girl. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|