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Help needed, engine too low
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Bilscho
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:58 am    Post subject: Help needed, engine too low Reply with quote

The engine of my 60 beetle appears to be too low, photos attached showing exhausts, engine tin (which is about 1inch lower i think) and the front gearbox mount which is a 60 only item.

The gearbox mount appears ok, not soft, and I have compared it to a new replacement and they appear the same.

Any ideas please - I wondered if the nose cone on the gearbox was year specific and maybe has been changed in the past for an incorrect item?

Thanks

Bill
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Eric&Barb
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Help needed, engine too low Reply with quote

Well the transaxle is a tunnel case for post-1960 model year.
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Eric&Barb
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Help needed, engine too low Reply with quote

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=655154&highlight=tunnel+case++1960
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Eric&Barb
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Help needed, engine too low Reply with quote

Thru a search for "tunnel case in 1960":

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/search.php?searc..._chars=200
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Bilscho
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:07 am    Post subject: Re: Help needed, engine too low Reply with quote

The number I found on the gearbox is 3939027. If I want to keep the original style 1960 front gearbox mount is the solution to fit a split bus nose cone and hockey stick?

Thanks

Bill
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Eric&Barb
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Help needed, engine too low Reply with quote

Have you read this??

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...p;start=20

Would try posting any questions there, since all involved there are probably well versed in it.
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EVfun
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Help needed, engine too low Reply with quote

This thread covers the problem nicely. The short answer is that there is no combination of VW parts that puts the engine at the right height in a '60 Bug except its one year only splitcase transaxle complete with nosecone and a '60 only front mount.

The most practical options I'm aware of would be to weld in a later front mount so that transaxle fits correctly, or find and install an original transaxle (I see you already have the '60 only mount.)
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splitjunkie
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Help needed, engine too low Reply with quote

Bilscho wrote:
The number I found on the gearbox is 3939027. If I want to keep the original style 1960 front gearbox mount is the solution to fit a split bus nose cone and hockey stick?

Thanks

Bill


That definitely works for a '54 through '59. There are those who say it works for a '60. I have never tried it. My '60 still had the '60 only front mount but I opted to weld on the later style mount and then I could use a normal beetle nose cone and hockey stick.

Someone also mentioned the '60 only dipstick.

Because of the different angle of the engine the '60 only dipstick has the marks in different locations to compensate. If you don't use one then you will have the wrong amount of oil in the engine. The '60 only dipstick is the one with the red handle.

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Bilscho
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:43 am    Post subject: Re: Help needed, engine too low Reply with quote

Thanks for you help so far.

I would like to fit as close to original style parts as I can, I understand now that the transmission nose cone is 60 specific, can anyone tell me if the split case transmission is also 60 specific or would one from an earlier beetle fit?

Thanks

Bill
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splitjunkie
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:01 am    Post subject: Re: Help needed, engine too low Reply with quote

The nose cone, hockey stick, and shift forks were the only parts that were different.
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Emeraldlion
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:44 am    Post subject: Re: Help needed, engine too low Reply with quote

Anyone else notice that the passenger support is almost Swiss cheese? I have never had a vdub this rusty but I can't imagine that let's it sit very "stockish"
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Bilscho
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:42 am    Post subject: Re: Help needed, engine too low Reply with quote

Emeraldlion wrote:
Anyone else notice that the passenger support is almost Swiss cheese? I have never had a vdub this rusty but I can't imagine that let's it sit very "stockish"


Looks like it doesn't it - photos do not always tell the full story - the underside was covered in underseal from new, under it is fresh black paint - the 'swiss cheese' you saw. This is actually the most solid beetle I have had the pleasure to own.

More important note, does anyone know where I can find the part number for the correct 60 nose cone?

Cheers, Bill
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EVfun
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Help needed, engine too low Reply with quote

splitjunkie wrote:
The nose cone, hockey stick, and shift forks were the only parts that were different.

If the shift forks are different does that mean the case is different?

I'm home now and looked in Progressive Refinements. It looks like all 3 selector shafts where modified. Even if the '60 transaxle case is the same as earlier you would likely have to tear an earlier box down to swap in '60 selector shafts. Also, starting sometime in Jan. '59 second gear was lowered (1.94 instead of 1.88 ) and that is desirable to have when running a split box without a syncro in first. I have a '60 box in the garage if any specific info from it would help (the case isn't worth using due to a previous owner's over exuberant clearancing for a 200mm flywheel.)
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Last edited by EVfun on Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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empi3
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Help needed, engine too low Reply with quote

If I'm reading the parts file correctly, your looking for 113 301 205 A

(2) 113 301 205 A Gearshift housing

from Chassis No. 2 528 668 up to 3 192 506 1

(use 113 301 249 for non synchromesh
transmissions)

Steven
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Emeraldlion
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Help needed, engine too low Reply with quote

Wow, that is a pretty good illusion. Now that you point it out though you can see the black paint. I ended up ordering a bus mount and switching the hockey stick on my '60. It was a pain but I didn't want to try sourcing the 1 year only mount.
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Bilscho
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:15 am    Post subject: Re: Help needed, engine too low Reply with quote

Thanks for all replies and guidance, understand it all a little better now I think. My understanding is that the bus nose cone would work with a 59 or earlier when fitting a tunnel box, but not with a 60.

Only way to go is either weld a new front mount bracket on the chassis to take later mount or go back to stock.

Decided stock was way to go for me, so have found a Feb 60 box - must remember to fit a red dipstick.

Thanks again

Bill
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:23 am    Post subject: Re: Help needed, engine too low Reply with quote

EVfun wrote:
splitjunkie wrote:
The nose cone, hockey stick, and shift forks were the only parts that were different.

If the shift forks are different does that mean the case is different?

I'm home now and looked in Progressive Refinements. It looks like all 3 selector shafts where modified. Even if the '60 transaxle case is the same as earlier you would likely have to tear an earlier box down to swap in '60 selector shafts. Also, starting sometime in Jan. '59 second gear was lowered (1.94 instead of 1.88 ) and that is desirable to have when running a split box without a syncro in first. I have a '60 box in the garage if any specific info from it would help (the case isn't worth using due to a previous owner's over exuberant clearancing for a 200mm flywheel.)


I used the wrong term. The selector shafts is what I meant. The case is the same.
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