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Bilscho Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2010 Posts: 100 Location: UK
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Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:58 am Post subject: Help needed, engine too low |
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The engine of my 60 beetle appears to be too low, photos attached showing exhausts, engine tin (which is about 1inch lower i think) and the front gearbox mount which is a 60 only item.
The gearbox mount appears ok, not soft, and I have compared it to a new replacement and they appear the same.
Any ideas please - I wondered if the nose cone on the gearbox was year specific and maybe has been changed in the past for an incorrect item?
Thanks
Bill
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24671 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:21 pm Post subject: Re: Help needed, engine too low |
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Well the transaxle is a tunnel case for post-1960 model year. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24671 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24671 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Bilscho Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2010 Posts: 100 Location: UK
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Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:07 am Post subject: Re: Help needed, engine too low |
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The number I found on the gearbox is 3939027. If I want to keep the original style 1960 front gearbox mount is the solution to fit a split bus nose cone and hockey stick?
Thanks
Bill |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24671 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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EVfun Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012 Posts: 5446 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:44 pm Post subject: Re: Help needed, engine too low |
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This thread covers the problem nicely. The short answer is that there is no combination of VW parts that puts the engine at the right height in a '60 Bug except its one year only splitcase transaxle complete with nosecone and a '60 only front mount.
The most practical options I'm aware of would be to weld in a later front mount so that transaxle fits correctly, or find and install an original transaxle (I see you already have the '60 only mount.) _________________
Wildthings wrote: |
As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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splitjunkie Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006 Posts: 4083
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Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 12:45 pm Post subject: Re: Help needed, engine too low |
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Bilscho wrote: |
The number I found on the gearbox is 3939027. If I want to keep the original style 1960 front gearbox mount is the solution to fit a split bus nose cone and hockey stick?
Thanks
Bill |
That definitely works for a '54 through '59. There are those who say it works for a '60. I have never tried it. My '60 still had the '60 only front mount but I opted to weld on the later style mount and then I could use a normal beetle nose cone and hockey stick.
Someone also mentioned the '60 only dipstick.
Because of the different angle of the engine the '60 only dipstick has the marks in different locations to compensate. If you don't use one then you will have the wrong amount of oil in the engine. The '60 only dipstick is the one with the red handle.
_________________ Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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Bilscho Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2010 Posts: 100 Location: UK
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:43 am Post subject: Re: Help needed, engine too low |
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Thanks for you help so far.
I would like to fit as close to original style parts as I can, I understand now that the transmission nose cone is 60 specific, can anyone tell me if the split case transmission is also 60 specific or would one from an earlier beetle fit?
Thanks
Bill |
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splitjunkie Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006 Posts: 4083
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:01 am Post subject: Re: Help needed, engine too low |
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The nose cone, hockey stick, and shift forks were the only parts that were different. _________________ Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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Emeraldlion Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2005 Posts: 743 Location: Texarkana, TX
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:44 am Post subject: Re: Help needed, engine too low |
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Anyone else notice that the passenger support is almost Swiss cheese? I have never had a vdub this rusty but I can't imagine that let's it sit very "stockish" |
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Bilscho Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2010 Posts: 100 Location: UK
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:42 am Post subject: Re: Help needed, engine too low |
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Emeraldlion wrote: |
Anyone else notice that the passenger support is almost Swiss cheese? I have never had a vdub this rusty but I can't imagine that let's it sit very "stockish" |
Looks like it doesn't it - photos do not always tell the full story - the underside was covered in underseal from new, under it is fresh black paint - the 'swiss cheese' you saw. This is actually the most solid beetle I have had the pleasure to own.
More important note, does anyone know where I can find the part number for the correct 60 nose cone?
Cheers, Bill |
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EVfun Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012 Posts: 5446 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:46 pm Post subject: Re: Help needed, engine too low |
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splitjunkie wrote: |
The nose cone, hockey stick, and shift forks were the only parts that were different. |
If the shift forks are different does that mean the case is different?
I'm home now and looked in Progressive Refinements. It looks like all 3 selector shafts where modified. Even if the '60 transaxle case is the same as earlier you would likely have to tear an earlier box down to swap in '60 selector shafts. Also, starting sometime in Jan. '59 second gear was lowered (1.94 instead of 1.88 ) and that is desirable to have when running a split box without a syncro in first. I have a '60 box in the garage if any specific info from it would help (the case isn't worth using due to a previous owner's over exuberant clearancing for a 200mm flywheel.) _________________
Wildthings wrote: |
As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
Last edited by EVfun on Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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empi3 Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2015 Posts: 346 Location: SW Wyoming
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: Help needed, engine too low |
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If I'm reading the parts file correctly, your looking for 113 301 205 A
(2) 113 301 205 A Gearshift housing
from Chassis No. 2 528 668 up to 3 192 506 1
(use 113 301 249 for non synchromesh
transmissions)
Steven _________________ The fact someone posts a thousand messages a month does not mean the messages contain anything worth reading.
Bob Hoover
1970 Beetle
1956 Ragtop Beetle |
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Emeraldlion Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2005 Posts: 743 Location: Texarkana, TX
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Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:40 pm Post subject: Re: Help needed, engine too low |
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Wow, that is a pretty good illusion. Now that you point it out though you can see the black paint. I ended up ordering a bus mount and switching the hockey stick on my '60. It was a pain but I didn't want to try sourcing the 1 year only mount. |
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Bilscho Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2010 Posts: 100 Location: UK
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Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:15 am Post subject: Re: Help needed, engine too low |
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Thanks for all replies and guidance, understand it all a little better now I think. My understanding is that the bus nose cone would work with a 59 or earlier when fitting a tunnel box, but not with a 60.
Only way to go is either weld a new front mount bracket on the chassis to take later mount or go back to stock.
Decided stock was way to go for me, so have found a Feb 60 box - must remember to fit a red dipstick.
Thanks again
Bill |
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splitjunkie Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006 Posts: 4083
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Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:23 am Post subject: Re: Help needed, engine too low |
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EVfun wrote: |
splitjunkie wrote: |
The nose cone, hockey stick, and shift forks were the only parts that were different. |
If the shift forks are different does that mean the case is different?
I'm home now and looked in Progressive Refinements. It looks like all 3 selector shafts where modified. Even if the '60 transaxle case is the same as earlier you would likely have to tear an earlier box down to swap in '60 selector shafts. Also, starting sometime in Jan. '59 second gear was lowered (1.94 instead of 1.88 ) and that is desirable to have when running a split box without a syncro in first. I have a '60 box in the garage if any specific info from it would help (the case isn't worth using due to a previous owner's over exuberant clearancing for a 200mm flywheel.) |
I used the wrong term. The selector shafts is what I meant. The case is the same. _________________ Chris
You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld |
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