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livingskies Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2020 Posts: 208 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:59 am Post subject: New 1964 Sub-Hatch Project |
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After looking for a nice split screen bus for a while, this '64 Sub Hatch became available and followed me home. I'm excited about it. Maybe some of you have seen this bus before; although I haven't seen it in any threads in searches here on Samba.
The previous owner mostly disassembled the bus, except for the drive train and suspension. The underside and body are remarkably rust free, except for two small holes on outriggers and a hole in the battery box area.
The body is mostly in primer, with most body work completed and well done. Someone in the distant past cut all four wheel well lips off, presumably to accommodate larger tires. So new pieces need to be fitted there. I need to think on that more, to decide whether to replace the minimal amount of metal possible or to replace the doglegs and rear quarters. I'm leaning towards replacing as little as possible.
Most of the Westfalia items appear to be present. The wood ceiling is still in the bus, in quite good condition. One question I have is regarding the color of the interior woodwork. The woodwork in this bus appears to have a darker stain than it would have had originally. Did all the 1964 Westfalias come with a light colored wood finish? Or did some come with a dark stain on the wood?
It appears to be an original Westfalia factory conversion, picked up at the factory by the original owner. M codes include: 430, B33, 025, 168, 181, UT, 2313,and 523907. Not sure what the UT, 2313, and 523907 signify. Maybe someone can help with that too.
Last edited by livingskies on Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:10 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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srfndoc Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2010 Posts: 3275 Location: SoCal
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Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:13 am Post subject: Re: New 1964 Sub-Hatch Project |
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Congrats on the new project.
UT - Tourist edition bus
2313 - Kombi
523907 - Pearl White Westy paint code
Looks like someone went to town with the dark stain on your interior. Your bus is an SO33 so would only come in a single interior wood color/layout.
Here's a pic of the piece you posted:
_________________ RPM=(MPH*336* (R&P*4th*1.26))/Tire Diameter in inches |
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Box on Wheels Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2004 Posts: 398 Location: The Box,CA
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Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:20 am Post subject: Re: New 1964 Sub-Hatch Project |
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srfndoc wrote: |
Congrats on the new project.
UT - Tourist edition bus
2313 - Kombi
523907 - Pearl White Westy paint code
Looks like someone went to town with the dark stain on your interior. Your bus is an SO33 so would only come in a single interior color/layout. |
Same as above.
Cool SO33 camper!
The 3 at the end of 231 for Left hand Drive Kombi is for the Synthetic Resin Finish that most Westfalia's came finished in. Your wood cabinets should be in the lighter Swiss Pear Wood look like the SO35 models. Did you get the stove & chemical toilet? _________________ 58 PGSG Westfalia
64 Türkis SO-35 Flip seat Westfalia
66 Pearl White SO-42 Pop-Top Westfalia
67 Titian Red SO-42 Pop-Top walk-thru Westfalia
64 Safari Beige Sunroof Notchback
97 993 S Coupe
97 993 Cabriolet
04 996 C4S Coupe
God, guts, and guns made America great!
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livingskies Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2020 Posts: 208 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:54 am Post subject: Re: New 1964 Sub-Hatch Project |
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No stove and no chemical toilet came with it. Probably long separated from the bus. A piece of awning came with it, but not much and no poles.
The cabinets and panels all appear to be there. Most pieces are in good condition. I may try stripping the finish in an inconspicuous area. If the stain is only in the top layer of finish, it may come off well. If the stain was applied separately first and soaked into the wood pores, it likely won't come off well.
Am I correct that Westfalia used a type of birch veneer/plywood for the wood surfaces that show? Making all new woodwork for it sounds like a big project; if that is the only way to replicate the original finish, it will be tempting to leave the dark finish in place.
A couple more questions for those that have experience with Kombi restorations:
-Does anyone sell a complete rubber kit, including all the doors and windows, etc. That may be better than trying to find all the individual pieces.
-With six pop out windows spec'd on the M code tag, I'm wondering what Westfalia did with the window behind the side doors. Isn't that window inside a closet? Is it still supposed to open, or did they replace it with fixed glass?
-Regarding upholstery material - does someone (preferably in North America) sell good quality replica material for the rear seats, front seats, and curtains?
I'm sure that lots more questions will come up as time goes on. Thanks for any and all help. |
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von_hansel Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2006 Posts: 635 Location: Inland Empire
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Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: New 1964 Sub-Hatch Project |
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Congrats. Excited to see what you do with it.
Can't say I have ever seen a Pearl White SO-33 before. Very uncommon color for Non SO42/45 Westies. _________________
Mugatu wrote: |
von_hansel is so hot right now |
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velvetgreen Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2004 Posts: 2746 Location: Canada
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Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: New 1964 Sub-Hatch Project |
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nice looking so33- too bad some PO appears to have stained all the cabinets. That stain will probably not be easy to undo as the pearwood veneer westfalia used back in the day is very very thin..and stain tends to soak in to the wood.. so please tread carefully.
I have read articles about people using cabinet scrapers to restore westfalia cabinet veneer. they key of course is to remove as little of the veneer as necessary to achieve the desired results. YMMV if you do go this route best to practise on scrap wood etc to perfect your technique
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbO4m3eZkQ8 |
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LAGrunthaner Samba Member
Joined: March 18, 2007 Posts: 5509 Location: 1st Coast
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Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:05 am Post subject: Re: New 1964 Sub-Hatch Project |
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velvetgreen, nice video thanks, I need one of those scraper sharpeners but can't find it. Any suggestions?
Link
velvetgreen wrote: |
nice looking so33- too bad some PO appears to have stained all the cabinets. That stain will probably not be easy to undo as the pearwood veneer westfalia used back in the day is very very thin..and stain tends to soak in to the wood.. so please tread carefully.
I have read articles about people using cabinet scrapers to restore westfalia cabinet veneer. they key of course is to remove as little of the veneer as necessary to achieve the desired results. YMMV if you do go this route best to practise on scrap wood etc to perfect your technique
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbO4m3eZkQ8 |
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Lind wrote: |
Have you considered simply starting with a nicer bus? I don't know what your skills are, but the race is easier if you can see the finish line. If you are not a runner, don't start off doing a marathon. |
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crofty Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000 Posts: 19672 Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
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Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:10 am Post subject: Re: New 1964 Sub-Hatch Project |
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The pop out would still be left in the closet. In a SO34 brochure they mentioned it as a way to air out your linens or something like that. _________________ Your Vanagon sucks, Stop waving at me.
HamburgerBrad wrote: |
I slept on crofty's tent once. I passed out drunk from two bottles of Everett's brother's wine. |
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Clara Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003 Posts: 12401
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Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:42 pm Post subject: Re: New 1964 Sub-Hatch Project |
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velvetgreen wrote: |
nice looking so33- too bad some PO appears to have stained all the cabinets. That stain will probably not be easy to undo as the pearwood veneer westfalia used back in the day is very very thin..and stain tends to soak in to the wood.. so please tread carefully.
I have read articles about people using cabinet scrapers to restore westfalia cabinet veneer. they key of course is to remove as little of the veneer as necessary to achieve the desired results. YMMV if you do go this route best to practise on scrap wood etc to perfect your technique
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbO4m3eZkQ8 |
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livingskies Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2020 Posts: 208 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: New 1964 Sub-Hatch Project |
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I'm still in the thinking stage on what to do with the woodwork; very open to suggestions. In an earlier career, I built furniture and cabinets. Not the ultimate expert, but I do have an idea of the challenge involved in restoring the woodwork to its original appearance.
A search on European pear wood turns up veneer but no sheets of thin plywood. Maybe someone know of a source. It is infinitely easier to work with sheets of plywood than to laminate a thin layer of veneer to a ply wood base.
The European pearwood used in these buses may not be that different in grain from other woods without a strong grain, like Baltic Birch, which is available in various thicknesses of plywood. It may not be all that difficult to stain that wood to something very close to the correct appearance.
Of course, another option is to leave the wood dark, making that change part of the history of the bus. |
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earlywesty Samba Member
Joined: May 03, 2004 Posts: 2358 Location: In the woods, Ontario
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Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 5:46 am Post subject: Re: New 1964 Sub-Hatch Project |
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I would just leave it especially vs. changing it to an incorrect wood/veneer. That would be a shame. Cool bus. |
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livingskies Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2020 Posts: 208 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:01 am Post subject: Re: New 1964 Sub-Hatch Project |
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Another question - has anyone found a source for the seat upholstery fabric (as can be seen in one of the pictures above) and the curtain material? |
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crofty Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000 Posts: 19672 Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
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Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 9:11 am Post subject: Re: New 1964 Sub-Hatch Project |
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livingskies wrote: |
Another question - has anyone found a source for the seat upholstery fabric (as can be seen in one of the pictures above) and the curtain material? |
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2080547 _________________ Your Vanagon sucks, Stop waving at me.
HamburgerBrad wrote: |
I slept on crofty's tent once. I passed out drunk from two bottles of Everett's brother's wine. |
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livingskies Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2020 Posts: 208 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:06 am Post subject: Re: New 1964 Sub-Hatch Project |
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crofty, thanks for that link. The curtain material looks great. But I don't see the correct colors for the SO33 seats. The original pastel colors would look great in the restoration. Wondering if anyone makes that fabric? |
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crofty Judas of the North
Joined: August 09, 2000 Posts: 19672 Location: Land of Whine and Phonies
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Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 11:25 am Post subject: Re: New 1964 Sub-Hatch Project |
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livingskies wrote: |
crofty, thanks for that link. The curtain material looks great. But I don't see the correct colors for the SO33 seats. The original pastel colors would look great in the restoration. Wondering if anyone makes that fabric? |
Pearl White bus would have the orange plaid _________________ Your Vanagon sucks, Stop waving at me.
HamburgerBrad wrote: |
I slept on crofty's tent once. I passed out drunk from two bottles of Everett's brother's wine. |
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livingskies Samba Member
Joined: April 18, 2020 Posts: 208 Location: Western Canada
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Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 8:00 pm Post subject: Re: New 1964 Sub-Hatch Project |
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That's unfortunate, Crofty. Not crazy about the orange plaid. I much prefer the colors of the upholstery in srfndoc's picture, above. Although deteriorated, that color also is what is on the camper area seats in our pearl white bus now. Maybe someone swapped seats in from another unit at some point??
The upholstery is gone from the front seat; only springs and frames remain. Wondering if that seat should match the rear upholstery, or ??? |
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Thompson2 Samba Member
Joined: June 06, 2018 Posts: 659 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:46 pm Post subject: Re: New 1964 Sub-Hatch Project |
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LAGrunthaner wrote: |
velvetgreen, nice video thanks, I need one of those scraper sharpeners but can't find it. Any suggestions?
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There’s a link in the description on the video to one on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0751RQ8GG/ |
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Clara Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003 Posts: 12401
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Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 7:16 am Post subject: Re: New 1964 Sub-Hatch Project |
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livingskies wrote: |
That's unfortunate, Crofty. Not crazy about the orange plaid. I much prefer the colors of the upholstery in srfndoc's picture, above. Although deteriorated, that color also is what is on the camper area seats in our pearl white bus now. Maybe someone swapped seats in from another unit at some point??
The upholstery is gone from the front seat; only springs and frames remain. Wondering if that seat should match the rear upholstery, or ??? |
There are a variety of colours in the plaid used in the SO-33 era.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=730513&highlight=plaid
I am not 100% sure if certain plaid colours were used with certain paint colours.
If there is original fabric on your bus, it is probably original to the bus. Generally it gets worn and often is replaced, or just covered over.
Not all colors were reproduced, so that can affect what goes on there.
Taking the cabinets apart, carefully scraping, re-finishing is a lot of work. Re-assembly is a lot of work. Cleaning the plastic trim, re-installing it. fitting the doors. fussy. Don't lose the pieces.
The hinges were copper plated, but often the copper gets worn off. Be careful when cleaning them. The copper hinges look beautiful with the lustrous wood.
Scraping is the way to go, not re-veneering.
Flipseats had the plaid on the front seat.
SO-33 had the normal vinyl seat cover for the year/model
more SO33:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=109235&start=0
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/search.php?searc..._chars=200 |
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srfndoc Samba Member
Joined: August 21, 2010 Posts: 3275 Location: SoCal
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Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 8:07 am Post subject: Re: New 1964 Sub-Hatch Project |
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livingskies wrote: |
crofty, thanks for that link. The curtain material looks great. But I don't see the correct colors for the SO33 seats. The original pastel colors would look great in the restoration. Wondering if anyone makes that fabric? |
Bob does make the alternate (pastel as you called it) material:
As Clara mentioned the front seat would have the normal material from any bus that year (not this stuff). _________________ RPM=(MPH*336* (R&P*4th*1.26))/Tire Diameter in inches |
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Two Glove Boxes Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2005 Posts: 838 Location: Texas
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