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atta-clausus
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2004
Posts: 147
Location: roma,italy
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 Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2005 2:43 pm Post subject: Ceramic lifters |
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| what about ceramic composite lifters?how they can last respect the conventional tipe of lifters? |
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Jake Raby
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2003
Posts: 7433
Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2005 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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This must be a joke......
Ceramic lifters coupled to any camshaft really never wear out..
I was the one who built the very first street engine to use them. Every engine I built except one in 2004 had them- They are all I use now. When I take a new set to a show and encourage individuals to scour a 400+ buck set of them on the asphalt they think I am nuts! It blows them away when they can feel literally zero friction while doing this as well as can see ZERO damage to the lifter face.
The ONLY thing that will machine or drill Ceramic is Diamond! I have tried to grind on one and watched the grinding disc get smaller as I attempted the feat!
Ceramic lifters were developed first by Diesel engine manufactures when their standard lifters were limiting lives at 800,000 miles and they needed longer lives than that. The lifters were all that ever had na wear issue as Diesels have extreme valve spring tensions.
After swapping to Ceramic lifters the only thing that limits the Diesels life span now is ring life, as I have heard of some million mile plus ceramic equipped truck engines through conversations with those in the composite business.
Long story short:
I have seen Full tilt Road Race engines with 3 solid seasons of abuse under their belt come in with less cam and lifter wear than an engine that fired up and just broke in its conventional cam and lifters.
The ceramics can be used with any cam, can be reused and swapped to different cams and they don't need any break in at all.
Using ceramics is 100% assurance that you will never have another cam and lifter related failure- and thats worth its weight in gold because it happens so much these days with ALL other lifters.
Read here for more info
www.aircooledtechnology.com/research.htm
Also look at www.lnengineering.com for some other pics of cams and lifters and some ceramic info as well.
Hell, these days we use Ceramic lifters to break camshafts in for individuals that want to run conventional lifters later on- The polishing properties of such a hard part does wonders to the camshaft.
Ceramic lifters are the main key to 21st century engines......
_________________
Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell" |
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65BAJA
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2003
Posts: 660
Location: SHINGLE SPRINGS,CA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2005 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| The "composite lifters" that WEB sells, are they ceramic? |
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Jake Raby
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2003
Posts: 7433
Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 08, 2005 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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They are the same...
The same Manufacturer makes them, BUT we keep the manufacturer so depleted that web can't get any of them!!!
They have been out for months.
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Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell" |
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Type4parts
Banned
Joined: July 12, 2003
Posts: 99
Location: Costa Mesa, Calif
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Tvättbjörn
Samba Member
Joined: May 07, 2004
Posts: 1431
Location: SoCal
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| Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 1:52 am Post subject: |
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| how heavy is a ceramic lifter??? |
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Jake Raby
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2003
Posts: 7433
Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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52 grams
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Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell" |
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TimGud
Samba Member
Joined: March 03, 2002
Posts: 6459
Location: Rio Rico Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2005 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Sounds interesting. What is the price of a set of type 4, and type 1 ceramic lifters? |
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atta-clausus
Samba Member
Joined: August 08, 2004
Posts: 147
Location: roma,italy
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| where to buy them in italy? |
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Jake Raby
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2003
Posts: 7433
Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
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Rocknrod
Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 2157
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:28 am Post subject: |
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Today has been a good day... I learned something new!
Thanks jake! |
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Rocknrod
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Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 2157
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:48 am Post subject: |
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Jake are you doing the coating in house? Or are you jobbing out the bearing coating etc?
Pretty cool stuff  |
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Jake Raby
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2003
Posts: 7433
Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:56 am Post subject: |
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THAT IS NOT COATING!
The lifters are 100% Pure ceramic through and through...
We have tried some coatings to lifters, but nothing has the results of the silica nitride!
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Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell" |
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Rocknrod
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Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 2157
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 8:44 am Post subject: |
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Wow! Thats what I get for assuming!
No wonder they cost 400 a set... talk about eating up cutters!
Do the lifters have a wear pattern? Or can you get away with cam swaps without changing the lifters? 
I could not find any for a small block chevrolet  |
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Randy in Maine
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003
Posts: 34890
Location: The Beach
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 9:34 am Post subject: |
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I think the ceramic lifter technology is something that came out of NASCAR R&D and Formula 1 cars to get the engines to rap to 7500+ RPMS for 500 miles at least. Very light, not affected by heat, will not "float out", and because they are so much harder than the steel they replace, really don't wear.
Really more for big money engines as opposed to daily drivers I would imagine. |
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Jake Raby
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2003
Posts: 7433
Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 9:41 am Post subject: |
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Ceramic lifters are illegal in NASCAR..
F1 doesn't have lifters, nor valve springs. They run Pneumatic valvetrain.
The technology came from Diesels.
To answer the wear question..
They do not wear- Period. You can change cams 50 times and never need another set of lifters.
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Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell" |
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Rocknrod
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Joined: November 02, 2004
Posts: 2157
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:13 am Post subject: |
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Very cool...
Havent found any for my small block, really wanted to go that route!
Do they leave the lifter bores in the same good as new polished state as they do the cam? |
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Jake Raby
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Joined: August 23, 2003
Posts: 7433
Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:41 am Post subject: |
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Only if you have an aluminum case..
Magnesium cases hurt with the Ceramics..
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Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell" |
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GhiaManiac
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2004
Posts: 107
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| So ceramic won't work in a Type 1 mag case, the case being the weak point? |
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Jake Raby
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2003
Posts: 7433
Location: Aircooled Heaven USA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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It will work- If you sleeve the lifter bores...I have done it many times.
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Jake Raby
Raby Engine Development
www.rabyenginedevelopment.com
"I've never given anyone Hell, I just told them the truth and they thought it was Hell" |
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