Ecotec motor swap

[SHMO]

Anyone got the skinny on doing an ECOTEC motor swap? Namely the 2.2-liter version found in the newer Saturn Ion, Chevrolet Cavalier, and Pontiac Sunfires. These motor make 140 HP @ 5600 RPM and 150 lb-ft torque @ 4000 RPM in stock form. There are also supercharged versions that make over 200 HP, along with a bunch of aftermarket go-fast parts. I have heard really good things about this swap, but I haven't heard all the specifics problems that someone will encounter. Also, I haven’t seen any completed swaps done. Any good info is appreciated.

This poor little 1915cc aircooler just aint gunna get the job done.

SHMO

[HamburgerBrad]

if you do decide to go this route, pass that "little " 1914 my way. i'll give it a good home
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OGST | CU05 | OGJHC
1970 baja|1953 oval

Wanted: two beat up, ugly, curb rashed 6" phone dial wheels

[bug man nrg]

need info on your engine?
you can get the hp you are looking for out of your 1915cc efi turbo with good heads 180-210 hp is a hell of a lot of fun.
with this in mind how fast are you trying to make this bug .
200 hp can give you mid to low 13s this is good for a street bug. \
your next stop will be a good set of brakes and trany

[SHMO]

Would you fly in a plane that had a 200hp turbo VW motor?

SHMO

[SHMO]

My 1915 motor is a pretty basic deal. Full flowed case, C/W crank, mahle cylinders, 041 heads, 110 cam, 009 dizzy with pertronics, a set of Kadrons and a Tri-mil, not a horsepower monster I know, but it runs fair. However, another 100hp and some fuel injection would be nice. I just can’t see putting that kind of money and effort into a type I motor. Like you said, maybe with a turbo and fuel injection, but Man that’s big money for a disposable motor. Plus you know it aint gunna run like a stock Chevy Cavalier.

If I am off base, please correct me. Afterall, An air cooled setup would be the easiest way to go.

SHMO

[baja5]

If you really want to go with a water pumper why not a subaru? smaller package and more power out of the box. plus being a boxer it won't hang way out back on your car. Just seems easier to mount and for sure more reliable. The local builder of the famous Sand Limo cars here use Ecotec motors and every time i stop by their shop they have an Ecotec with a rod hanging out of the block.In a Subaru you can run a ton of boost in stock form and i see them for $850 on ebay all the time.

[SHMO]

I was thinking about a subie swap, and haven't completely written the idea off. They seem to be a great setup from what I have seen. However, these Eco motors are only 5 inches longer than a type I. Plus, they only weigh something like 20 pounds more than a type I. Factor that in with the 160hp they make without all the smog stuff and they start to become another real appealing option. The biggest concern is how well they are packaged for a Baja and of course the bottom line on cost. I am just researching to find my best alternative.

Care to elaborate on the Ecotecs with the rods hanging out of the blocks? Were they turboed and making big horsepower? I was under the impression they can handle up to 250hp with stock internals pretty easily. But, I am considering a mild motor for my car (160-180hp at most) in hopes of keeping my tranny alive. A nasty turbo motor isn't something I am looking for.


SHMO

[baja5]

I think they were claiming around 210-220 horsies on about 8-10 pounds of boost. I'm sure they were running them pretty hard, those sand limos weigh in pretty hefty, around 2000 pounds i guess. I also talked to the owner of 1 car that he did the swap into and the price tag was around 6500 for the package, motor,radiator and electronics. seemed pretty steep and that car was N/A. no turbo.

[Josiah]

me and jed are gonna do the subbie swap. ill probably do mine in a few months or so. we want to go with a group buy though so we will get a better deal. i personally think the subbie swap is ALOT easier and cheaper than what you want to do.
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fear causes hesitation and hesitation will cause your worst fear to come true.

[SHMO]

OK here is my concern with the subie motor swaps, and maybe I am off base. There is so many mixed up and goofy threads about it on the net, it is hard to decipher what’s what.

Now, my understanding with the Subie motor is that it takes a special intake or some sort of modification to the stock intake to rotate the throttle body around to the back of the car. In a rail this probably isn’t a problem, but with a Baja it’s a different story. I have also heard there is some problems trying to route and mount all the accessories on the motor, at least if you don’t plan on using the factory power steering pump, AC pump and all that smog junk. Finally, I haven’t heard of anyone figuring out how to pirate a simple wiring setup for them without using a stand alone ECU unit, which is big bucks. Basically from what I have read, that subie motor isn’t a simple “bolt it in and go” conversion. If I am wrong PLEASE let me know. I would love to find the best and most effective swap I can do for the money and headaches. If the Subie motors are the way to go and someone can point me towards some good info regarding it that would be great.

SHMO

[Josiah]

http://www.outbackmotors.com 1000 dollars for your ecu and sub wiring harness. they make custom wiring harness's for bugs also. i think the place im getting my subbie engine from is 650 for the engine than 1000 probably from outback for a link ecu and wiring harness. and talk to jed about the radiator, he was tellin me somethin about a smaller radiator to use, since the subbie will be on a bug sumone made a small radiator or something like that...hopefully jed reads this thread and says the right stuff about the radiator haha
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fear causes hesitation and hesitation will cause your worst fear to come true.

[Josiah]

http://www.outbackmotors.com 1000 dollars for your ecu and sub wiring harness. they make custom wiring harness's for bugs also. i think the place im getting my subbie engine from is 650 for the engine than 1000 probably from outback for a link ecu and wiring harness. and talk to jed about the radiator, he was tellin me somethin about a smaller radiator to use, since the subbie will be on a bug sumone made a small radiator or something like that...hopefully jed reads this thread and says the right stuff about the radiator haha
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fear causes hesitation and hesitation will cause your worst fear to come true.

[SHMO]

Now here is what I have heard regarding the Ecotect swap, although there isn’t even a fraction of the info available on the subject.

Ecotec motors are only 20 pounds heavier than a type I. They are also only five inches longer. The package is very compact and simple. They have roughly 160hp in stock form. They run a timing chain, not belt, which is for good off road. They are used in countless GM cars, and there is a good aftermarket parts following to build HP from 160-1000hp. From what I understand, the Marine industry uses this motor for inboard applications so there must be a simplified wiring harness to be found somewhere. I think there is no real modification to do to the motors to allow them to work in a Baja, but I haven’t pinned this down for sure. The motors are also cheap. I have seen several on Ebay sell for well under $1500 complete. Remember, these motors are new so most of them are going to be very low mileage. The Ecotec only came out in 2002 I believe. Here is a link to an Ebay motor, $700 buys it, and it only has 12K miles.

SHMO
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7948393127&category=33615

[4x4EATR]

Ever think about a Ford 2.3L swap? There are n/a ones layin' around everywhere(pintos, rangers, mustangs), but there also many turbo'd ones(SVO's, T-birds, Merkurs). One of my buddies has an 87' SVO with the 2.3 Turbo, built with junkyard parts, that runs 28psi of boost and pulls low 13's/ high 12's in the quarter. I'm planning on running a T-Bird 2.3 in my baja.

[SHMO]

I will check out the Outback web page, thanx for that link. I am wondering what motor you will be picking up for $650. How many miles, what model, turbo, N/A? Also, am I right about the packaging issues regarding the Subaru motors? Somehow I don’t see them being half the price of these Ecotecs, all things being equal.

As for the Ford 2.3 swap, the motors make decent power. I would say for the low buck install they are really tough to beat. However, they are mid 80's vintage so that’s a drawback if you want to install a used one. Low mile turbo coupe motors aren't very common, and by the time you rebuild one the overall price goes back up. The biggest downside I can see from the 2.3 conversion is weight and overall size. Those motors are heavy. You would have to factor in beefier torsion bars, stronger valved shocks and the fact that there is way more weight hanging off the back of your car causing it to handle poorly compared to a lighter motor. Still a good swap, just not my first choice considering all the other options.

SHMO

[Josiah]

damnit shmo! now youve got me thinking...haha
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fear causes hesitation and hesitation will cause your worst fear to come true.

[TurboLark]

I picked up a mazda rotary engine for $300 with the carb. I have an oler rotary turbo sitting in the garage(can pick em up for $100 or so), and should be around 200-225hp. Still pretty light, tons of space for the peripherals(radiator, oil coolers, etc). i have a 93 13b waiting to be rebuilt with the good parts, and a bigger turbo..should be 400-450hp and will cost less than the $5000-7000 for a subaru or ecotec conversion.
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MB Products 4 seat beam chassis - 091 trans, 2332 VW

[SHMO]

Turbolark,

what tranny will you using? I understand those motors make great power, but you have to buzz them up passed 7000 to get it. Low end torque would be my concern, and the tranny's ability to live with ultra high input shaft speeds. Any more info on that swap?

SHMO

[TurboLark]

[4vertical]

i think there was a thread at stf about the ecotecs. something like it is really a couple wires to hook up as teh whole board comes out of the donor car.

+ don't forget that the engine may be only 20 pounds heavier but you will have another 10? with an adapter and the weight of the rad and whatever else might be required (wiring/computer/turbo?)

it will all add up.

as far as the 2300 turbos. what you have said is true. but i am flogging a stock 160xxx mile mule in my rail with no problems running 18psi and 6k through the dunes most of the time. seems to hold good. they say they can go 150k easily beforthey need a bore job. lots of nickel in the blocks