TheSamba.com :: View topic

Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:26 am

Wildthings wrote: Never known an engine that required 60wt oil unless it was bum f*ck worn out. I would think that oil flow would be severely hampered using something that thick as the pressure would tend to be high causing thus more oil to be dumped by the relief valve so overall less oil would be reaching the bearings.

It is 10w60 so not that thick when starting up.

Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:14 am

dobryan wrote: Wildthings wrote: Never known an engine that required 60wt oil unless it was bum f*ck worn out. I would think that oil flow would be severely hampered using something that thick as the pressure would tend to be high causing thus more oil to be dumped by the relief valve so overall less oil would be reaching the bearings.

It is 10w60 so not that thick when starting up.

It is plenty thick enough when cold that much of the oil is being puked through the relief valve and still plenty thick enough when hot that lots of oil will still be dump instead flowing through the main and rod bearings. I am not sold at all that these engine when properly built need anything thicker than 30wt on the hottest summer's day.

Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:38 am

Wildthings wrote: Never known an engine that required 60wt oil unless it was bum f*ck worn out. I would think that oil flow would be severely hampered using something that thick as the pressure would tend to be high causing thus more oil to be dumped by the relief valve so overall less oil would be reaching the bearings. It would interesting to see what Analysis GoWesty used to arrive at that Oil Spec. And what they feel they gained with going with it versus other Viscosity oils.
On the flip side of that, I'm amazed at Modern Engines that spin faster than the WBX, put out way more power but happily live with the stock oil spec of Full Syn 0W-20 oil. Even in really hot climates... :shock:

Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:03 am

jlrftype7 wrote: It would interesting to see what Analysis GoWesty used to arrive at that Oil Spec. And what they feel they gained with going with it versus other Viscosity oils.

Repeat customers :lol: Just kidding :wink: My unscientific experience with my various VWs has lead me to believe, there is no “One size” fits all. Wildthings engines are probably in better shape then mine. He’s a pro. However, he’s given me a nice baseline to follow over the years with different engines. I personally know many VW professionals and engine builders. They all got different theory.

Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:04 am

Wildthings wrote: when properly built need anything thicker than 30wt on the hottest summer's day.

Ok, then how about your recipe on how to properly build, I'd like your take on it. Step by step, podcast, videos, list of proper parts, special tricks, all of it. Please. And, Pretty Please too.

And, I'm not kidding either. I want to build one properly and use 5W30.

-bobby

Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:17 am

Xevin wrote: jlrftype7 wrote: It would interesting to see what Analysis GoWesty used to arrive at that Oil Spec. And what they feel they gained with going with it versus other Viscosity oils.

Repeat customers :lol: Just kidding :wink: My unscientific experience with my various VWs has lead me to believe, there is no “One size” fits all. Wildthings engines are probably in better shape then mine. He’s a pro. However, he’s given me a nice baseline to follow over the years with different engines. I personally know many VW professionals and engine builders. They all got different theory. That made me laugh about the Repeat Customers.... :P :P

Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:27 pm

Yes it is certainly a bizarre oil recommendation here is what GoWesty says about the 10W60: https://www.gowesty.com/product/lubricants/24697/red-line-synthetic-motor-oil---1-qt-10w60-?v=

I assume they know what they are talking about since they recommend this for their own rebuilds.

Today I switched to dino Valvoline VR1 20W50 with high Zinc, I will report back once I see if oil consumption has went back to pre-Redline oil levels.

I know the viscosity index of the Redline 10W60 is really high.

Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:10 pm

therastavan wrote: Yes it is certainly a bizarre oil recommendation here is what GoWesty says about the 10W60: https://www.gowesty.com/product/lubricants/24697/red-line-synthetic-motor-oil---1-qt-10w60-?v=

I assume they know what they are talking about since they recommend this for their own rebuilds.

Today I switched to dino Valvoline VR1 20W50 with high Zinc, I will report back once I see if oil consumption has went back to pre-Redline oil levels.

I know the viscosity index of the Redline 10W60 is really high.

They certainly do have some bizarre oil recommendations. Don't think I have ever before seen a recommendation that having your crankcase 40% low on oil is okay. It seems their main concern is oil pressure, but oil pressure doesn't have anything to do with an oils ability to lubricate. The 60wt number indicates the oil pump is working hard and not that the bearing are getting sufficient oil flow or that the oil even lubes all that well.

Quote: The oil capacity of a waterboxer is 5 quarts. These engines have a “wet sump,” and as long as the oil pump pick-up does not starve for oil, oil pressure in the engine will be the same regardless of whether there is one quart of oil present or five; it makes no difference. In general, if no oil has to be added between oil changes, that is what we consider to be “acceptable.” That equates to around ½ quart per 1000 miles. That means that at 3500 miles, the engine will be no more than 2 quarts low.

Fri Nov 13, 2020 5:00 am

bobbyblack wrote: Wildthings wrote: when properly built need anything thicker than 30wt on the hottest summer's day.

Ok, then how about your recipe on how to properly build, I'd like your take on it. Step by step, podcast, videos, list of proper parts, special tricks, all of it. Please. And, Pretty Please too.

And, I'm not kidding either. I want to build one properly and use 5W30.

-bobby

If your crank needs work, find a machinist who can get your rod and main bearing ground to no looser than the middle of the clearance range given in the book and go through the oil pump (new or used) to make sure it will deliver top performance. Any abnormal wear to the pressure relief valve needs to be addressed as well.

Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:48 pm

Switched to Valvoline VR1 20W50 Racing oil (Dino) and everything back to normal. No oil burn. No oil loss. Don’t understand why GoWesty would recommend synthetic.

Mon May 30, 2022 8:00 am

I know it's an old topic on here but it's timely for me. I'm at about 700 miles breaking in a new 2.2L in my '87 Westy. Previous engine I ran Rotella 15w40 or Castrol 20w50 depending on season and changed every 4-5k, no issues. But now I'm starting to think maybe switch to synthetic after I'm mostly broke in.

I have a friend who's an oil consultant who said it would be fine to keep running Rotella T4 (15w40), even though I live in a hot climate now - FL. Says the Zn level is good and it's viscosity is enhanced. Also says 20w50 is ok too but he would use an additive like Cleanboost EMT (which is a Zn substitute - he says don't use Zn additives since they don't remain in suspension well).

Then there's Go Westy for what it's worth, who recommend regular 20w50 of any kind until oil consumption stabilizes (and/or 10K miles - sorta confusing there), then switch to synthetic, they recommend Redline 10w60.

I'm tempted to just stick to conventional either Castrol gtx 20w50 w/Cleanboost or good old Rotella T4 plus a new Mahle every 5K or so. This latter would be the cheapest. But I put a lot into this new motor (a Rocky J by the way)

Final thought: Wasn't part of the attraction of full synthetic that you could lengthen time between oil changes? If one could change at 7500 or even 10K with a true synth like Redline then the xtra cost of the stuff would just about make it a wash $-wise. If it doesn't break down as easily under high temps., right? Why does go westy still recommend very short change intervals?

Sorry so long!

Mon May 30, 2022 9:58 am

mjfimages wrote:
Final thought: Wasn't part of the attraction of full synthetic that you could lengthen time between oil changes? If one could change at 7500 or even 10K with a true synth like Redline then the xtra cost of the stuff would just about make it a wash $-wise. If it doesn't break down as easily under high temps., right? Why does go westy still recommend very short change intervals?

Sorry so long!

I ran Mobile 1 in the original engine in my '91 and changed it annually, which meant it had between 25K and 35K miles on it when changed. I had it tested a few times and it always tested out fine. The engine lasted for 180k miles until I took it out of service due to rod bolt stretch which had zero to do with what oil was used. Actually had I been running a thicker oil I might have missed the signs of the rod bolts stretching and ended up blowing the engine up as was all to common with the factory 2.1L engines.

Mon May 30, 2022 11:02 am

I most often am running Mobil 1 oils.
Some of the formulations have a quite high Zinc level in them..... but most don't.... shop wisely.

Anyway, I still change the oil frequently, too frequently some will say, at around 6-7,000 miles.

I view having the Mobil 1 longer run time as simply an extra cost insurance policy should I not be able to change in a timely manner.

Dave