TheSamba.com :: View topic - SOURCE for points for VJR 4 BR 8 distributor

Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:23 pm

Hi,

My pre-August 1955 bug has a VJR 4 BR 8 distributor in it. I checked CIP1 and BFY obsolete for the proper points but did not find them.
For this distrib, the points are 2 pieces, and the piece that gets adjusted does not have the verticle tab found in the later distrib.s with 2 piece points; and also the piece that gets adjusted in my distrib has an oval cut out which is used for turning a screw which adjusts the point gap; a secondary screw in the same piece holds it in place when tightened.
Was wondering where to get these points.

Thanks a lot

Matt S

Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:41 pm

Do they look like this?

I have both NOS Bosch German points and new Bosch Spanish points in stock.

Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:03 pm

Hi Glenn,
I was hoping to hear from you as I've seen that you are very knowlegable about these old distrib.s!

My setup regarding the condensor, cap and rotor is what you show on the left of your pic., my points have the black metal band which is what you have on the right of your pic.

I may have found a nearby source - but not sure if he knows the difference between the early 2 piece points vs the later early 2 piece points. This would be good as I want to get my bug tuned up this weekend, - if he does not truly have them, ( tomorrow I have to talk to him further) could I purchase a set from you?

You can pm me for a price on points - or broadcast it here if you want

.....also according to the old volks home distributor sheet - it says this distrib (VJR 4 BR 8/1 - mine does not show a "/1") goes to a 25 hp engine. am wondering why if this is the case , why is it on my 36hp. Everything else on my bug is very stock. Is this distrib not appropriate for the running of my engine? I think it is okay, but thought I would ask.

Thanks

Matt S

Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:12 pm

The Old Volks Home site is wrong.

They list the 383 for 36hp and the VJR4BR8 and VJ4BR25 for 25hp. It's the other way.

The 383 is for early 25hp. The BR8 and BR25 are for late 25 and early 36hp. The 36hp also used the VJU4BR8 vacuum and mechanical advance.

The BR8 is the predecessor to the 019 and the BR25 is the predecessor to the 010. Both use the same points.

In the picture the left side are NOS original style parts. On the left are the current parts you can get new. Even the NOS German points I have are the black single spring.

If you need parts... i have them all in stock. You can also get them directly from Gene Berg. The parts you need are the exact same as the Bosch 019.

Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:18 pm

Glenn,

Thanks so much!!!!, I cannot imagine how long it would have taken me to realize old volks homes' error - if ever. Amazing how you come to know this stuff. Your info really helps.
Matt S

Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:19 pm

mr matt wrote: Glenn,

Thanks so much!!!!, I cannot imagine how long it would have taken me to realize old volks homes' error - if ever. Amazing how you come to know this stuff. Your info really helps.
Matt S

You can't know everything, but I know the old cast iron distirbutors. It's my niche.

Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:25 pm

It's always great to have a specialist around!

Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:02 pm

Glenn,
Were the old cast iron distributors date coded? I have a european deluxe 57 bug and want to see if the distributor in it is an original or an replacement. Thanks for your help,
Peter

Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:50 pm

I've restored over 300 distributors... mostly cast iron and have never seen a date code.

I also have a European 57 that's all original and it has a VJU4BR8 vacuum/mechanical advance distributor.

Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:58 pm

hi glenn
about the last photo i have played with that distributor.
do you know if there is any info available about regulating the screw inside the vacuum can (precharge of spring?) and the position of the threaded arm that goes inside the dist?
i have installed a nos can to my old distributor but wasn' t able to find the " tech" of this operation, over than installing it similar to the old one.
thanks

Thu Sep 01, 2005 3:10 pm

There is no spring on the vacuum advance. As for the rod... i haven't needed to take it apart. I test the vacuum pot to ensure the diphram is not ruptured and if it's good, i clean it up and reinstall it. Make sure to apply some distributor grease on the pivot.

As I see it, if the rod is a few milimeters longer or shorter, it doesn''t matter. What does matter is that diaphram moves the rod the same amount.

Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:15 pm

Glenn,

I informed old volks home of the need to maybe make a change - here is there reply back to me.............note - my car is an import..well, european - my 55 has semaphores - ones shipped to the U.S. did not -anyway.................

Hi Matthew -

Actually, both Glen and myself are correct - depending on the market where the vehicle was originally sold and I have seen verified original vehicles with either distributor originally installed, so the installation of an exact distributor does get "muddy" for the 50s era. When originally building the database, I not only had to use Bosch's and Volkswagen's data, but my own experience as well (I am a former owner of a 1950 Max Hoffman imported Beetle purchased in it's VERY tired, but original engine configuration from the original owner in Connecticut in October of 1966 - absolutely nothing was changed on this vehicle and yes, it had a 383 distributor installed).

Keep in mind the data tables (dating as far back as 1954 for VW and 1962 for Bosch) I used to build the webpage was for the North American Market (as it says in the preface) with no regard for other markets, such as the UK, Germany, etc.

Both Bosch and Volkswagen data tables show the following:

211-905-205 E/VJR 4 BR 8/1 25hp Eng to Engine # 1-695 281 (12/53)
211-905-205 F/VJR 4 BR 25/1 25hp Eng to Engine # 1-695 281 (12/53)
111-905-205 /VE4 BRS 383 36hp Eng Eng# 1-695 282 to 3 912 903 (7/60)
(NOTE: I have seen "383" distributors installed on 25hp Beetles [as Glen as pointed out], but I have also seen a "383" on an original 1954 36hp Beetle [only once - back in 1967]. I probably could have set the VW fanatic world on it's ear if I said thru 1960 as Bosch & VW claim - so they could have been installed on other market vehicles.)
111-905-205 C/VJU BR 8/1 36hp Eng Eng# 1-695 282 to 3 912 903 (7/60)
111-905-205 F/VJU 4 BR 8/1 36hp Eng Eng# 1-695 282 to 3 912 903 (7/60)
(NOTE: The 111-905-205C was the most commonly installed unit I've seen, the 111-905-205F being the replacement, which I've seen originally installed on the late 50s era of the Beetle.)

Additional note: The above is for Beetles. Type 2 is similar, but they continued to use the 211-905-205 E/F Mechanical Only advance distributors through the end of 36hp in mid 1959. I have never seen a "383" distributor on a Type 2, but it would surprise me if they were.

Another point of reference is that VJR/VE4 distributors are Mechanical Advance Only, used on 25hp Beetles and Buses AND 36hp Buses to mid 1959. VJU distributors are a combined Vacuum & Mechanical Advance used on 36hp Beetles. So, as a rule of thumb, if your 28PCI Carb is is original and it does NOT have a Vacuum Port, conceiveably it could have a "383" (VE4) or a VJR series distributor installed. If the carb has the Vacuum Port, then the 111-905-205C or F (VJR) should be installed.

Thanks for your inquiry, your comments and Glen's comments as well (I have noted Glen's stuff in the past with great interest). If desired, you are more than welcome to pass this post onto Glen and the Samba as well.

Jim Thompson

Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:20 pm

Hi Matthew -
Jim also added in a note I almost missed.............

Slip of the keyboard:

I originally said:

If the carb has the Vacuum Port, then the 111-905-205C or F (VJR) should be installed.

Should be:

If the carb has the Vacuum Port, then the 111-905-205C or F (VJU) should be installed.

Jim Thompson

Tue Sep 06, 2005 8:53 pm

bosch date coded everything with 3 digits. i used to have the chart when i worked at bosch for 30 long years. if i get a chance i will try to find it.

Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:34 pm

Regarding Date Code of Distributer Body There is a Date! If You have the Robert Bently Manual Dated 52-57 on Page 5-17 in the electrical section states!

Ignition Distributer Bosch vju 4 br 8 mk

"Beginning with the above chasis number, the centrifical and vacum spark advance curves of the ignition distributer Bosch VJU 4 BR 8 mk have been slightly altered. the type number of the distributer remains unchanged. the figures and letters stamped on the distributer body above the fire protection screen indicates MONTH and YEAR of construction for easy identification. The modification in question is incorporated in ALL distributers of the aforementioned type from "3M" onwards, the figure " 3 " standing for MARCH and the letter "M" for 1956. The months are indicated by the figures from 1 to 12. while the years are shown by the letter in ALPHABETICAL ORDER ( eg. M=1956 N=1957, etc.)

Hope this helps everyone! Eric=(VMR)