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Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:44 am

Quick question, what causes a bus' rear end to sag(sit lower to the ground than the front) and how do I fix it?

Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:33 am

You should probably do a search on the topic first. That subject has been hit many times.

Hey, good luck, I have the same problem with my Bus.

CMK

Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:44 am

before you start looking into a torsion bar adjustment do yourself a favor and put on some new rear shocks. i know the shocks do not real raise the back end, but ater in put new shocks on i noticed a difference just from the rear view mirror. it may help just enough.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:14 am

Suggestion:

First adjust the torsion bar and replace the worn bushings back there. It is a lot of work for you, but it doesn't cost much to do in parts. Then do the shocks.

The combo should really improve the steering and stability of the bus, especially in a crosswind.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 7:55 am

Remember that the front normally sits high. It makes the back look like it's sagging, but it may not actually be sagging. Have two people sit in the cab and then look at it.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:17 pm

I recommend buying the torsion bar adjustment tool about 27.00 .It will
make the adjustment alot safer.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:22 pm

MHACK wrote: I recommend buying the torsion bar adjustment tool about 27.00 .It will
make the adjustment alot safer.

Where do you get that tool MHack? Got a link?

Thu Apr 06, 2006 1:34 pm

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC%2DC10%2D7047

there are a few places that sell this . pm me and I'll give you a few tricks to make it work better.

Thu Apr 06, 2006 4:07 pm

MedicTed wrote: Remember that the front normally sits high. It makes the back look like it's sagging, but it may not actually be sagging. Have two people sit in the cab and then look at it.

The other thing is, in most years of bus, it is not possible to see the horizon in the inside rear view mirror. Some people think that this means the rear is sagging, but it is normal.

Find a level piece of ground, put 200 pounds in the front seat, and put a level on the sliding door sill. If it's close to level you're fine.

George

Fri Apr 07, 2006 7:42 am

beach_brada wrote: Quick question, what causes a bus' rear end to sag... and how do I fix it?

Change it's diaper...

Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:42 am

What about just using coil over shocks instead of doing the tortion thing? It seems like that would be way easier and less dangerous... has anyone done that as a solution to the soggy bottom bus?

Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:55 am

I once paid my mechanic to adjust the bus up one notch. I hated the result.

Went back to the stock "sagging" position.

Really, most of the problem is how it looks when you are not in the bus.

Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:16 am

static wrote: I once paid my mechanic to adjust the bus up one notch. I hated the result.

Went back to the stock "sagging" position.

Really, most of the problem is how it looks when you are not in the bus.

One notch is way too much! with 44 notches, one notch is 360/44 = 8 degrees. At the end of a ~20 inch trailing arm, 8 degrees is 20sin8 = 3 inches! One notch will make the rear end ride stiff, top out on bumps, and handle rather oddly. You'll also get more tire and CV joint wear.

To do it right, you have to turn the bar one way on the inner end and then the other way on the outer end. The different number of splines on the inner and outer ends allow you to adjust in increments of less than a degree.

George

Thu Aug 17, 2006 11:40 am

Chrispoage wrote: What about just using coil over shocks instead of doing the tortion thing? It seems like that would be way easier and less dangerous... has anyone done that as a solution to the soggy bottom bus?

Yep, have the coil overs on my '69. This was a somewhat ghetto remedy to 15" wheels with too much offset and 205/75R15 Michelins. They work great. Ride and handling much better that the worn out gas-a-justs they replaced and the fender lips now clear the tires.

Thu Aug 17, 2006 12:58 pm

OB Bus wrote: Chrispoage wrote: What about just using coil over shocks instead of doing the tortion thing? It seems like that would be way easier and less dangerous... has anyone done that as a solution to the soggy bottom bus?

Yep, have the coil overs on my '69. This was a somewhat ghetto remedy to 15" wheels with too much offset and 205/75R15 Michelins. They work great. Ride and handling much better that the worn out gas-a-justs they replaced and the fender lips now clear the tires.

Where did you get them? My '71 Westy DOES have a case of droopy drawers.

Thu Aug 17, 2006 2:08 pm

payton wrote: before you start looking into a torsion bar adjustment do yourself a favor and put on some new rear shocks...

I think that is backwards thinkin'. Your torsions should handle the weight of the bus, not the shocks.

Thu Aug 17, 2006 2:27 pm

nemobuscaptain wrote: payton wrote: before you start looking into a torsion bar adjustment do yourself a favor and put on some new rear shocks...

I think that is backwards thinkin'. Your torsions should handle the weight of the bus, not the shocks.

I agree, although VW actually had coil-over helper shocks in the parts book.

It's really important to make sure that the bus is really sagging. All buses sit nose-high without a driver in place!

George

Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:20 pm

Tram wrote: OB Bus wrote: Chrispoage wrote: What about just using coil over shocks instead of doing the tortion thing? It seems like that would be way easier and less dangerous... has anyone done that as a solution to the soggy bottom bus?
Yep, have the coil overs on my '69. This was a somewhat ghetto remedy to 15" wheels with too much offset and 205/75R15 Michelins. They work great. Ride and handling much better that the worn out gas-a-justs they replaced and the fender lips now clear the tires.
Where did you get them? My '71 Westy DOES have a case of droopy drawers.
From CIP
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C26%2D513%2D001%2DLT
Quote: I think that is backwards thinkin'. Your torsions should handle the weight of the bus, not the shocks.
I agree, although VW actually had coil-over helper shocks in the parts book.

No the coil overs are not a perfect solution. In my case (due to the non-stock wheels) very necessary. The fact that they were a factory option is often overlooked by the stock zealots.

Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:21 pm

Tram wrote: OB Bus wrote: Chrispoage wrote: What about just using coil over shocks instead of doing the tortion thing? It seems like that would be way easier and less dangerous... has anyone done that as a solution to the soggy bottom bus?

Yep, have the coil overs on my '69. This was a somewhat ghetto remedy to 15" wheels with too much offset and 205/75R15 Michelins. They work great. Ride and handling much better that the worn out gas-a-justs they replaced and the fender lips now clear the tires.

Where did you get them? My '71 Westy DOES have a case of droopy drawers.

This is not the proper way to remedy the problem. The Bentley manual describes the proper procedure to adjust the torsion bars, the only thing they do not tell you is what a minute (*) means, which IIRC is a 20th of a degree? Last time I posted on this subject I had the manual in front of me.

IMO you do not need the tool to reposition your spring plates. If you put a jackstand under the torsion tube to support the bus and use your floor jack saddle on the end of the spring plate, you can easily remove and reinstall the plate, gently pry outward with a crowbar while the saddle is supporting the wheel end of the plate, and let it down when you are clear of the stop block. Pound with a rubber mallet on the bar end of the plate (I had to use the mallethead as a drift and hit it with a 4lb sledge) to install. Use new rubber bushings. I used this method and had full control of the spring plates at all times, it was completely safe.

Coil over shocks are a band-aid solution. Your bus was designed to use the torsion bars as springs, your back end will be disproportionately stiffer than the front, which will make the bus handle funny.

I suspect the factory coil-overs were part of a package deal that included other upgraded components to return the suspension to some sort of balance. In any case it's cheaper to just adjust the bars correctly, and you will get better results.

Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:34 pm

Quote: I think that is backwards thinkin'. Your torsions should handle the weight of the bus, not the shocks.
I agree, although VW actually had coil-over helper shocks in the parts book.

No the coil overs are not a perfect solution. In my case (due to the non-stock wheels) very necessary. The fact that they were a factory option is often overlooked by the stock zealots.[/quote]

Apparently, you are talking to me. (???) If so:

1. I'm not a stock zealot. If you have seen my bus or my posts, you'd know that.
2. I know very well that coilovers were factory options and wouldn't mind putting them on my bus. However, my post was not in response to a coilover question, my post was in response to this:

Quote: before you start looking into a torsion bar adjustment do yourself a favor and put on some new rear shocks. i know the shocks do not real raise the back end, but ater in put new shocks on i noticed a difference just from the rear view mirror. it may help just enough.

To which, I again say, this is ass backwards. Adjust the torsion bars (assuming they are out of spec which may or may not be the case), then think about shocks.