TheSamba.com :: View topic

Sun May 07, 2006 2:42 pm

I have an 1835 with a weber progressive carb. Don't know much more than that about the engine. It has been tuned and tweeked by a VW garage. but it doesn't pass. It does seem to run a little hot. Carb has been rebuilt.

Any suggestion on what to do.

Sun May 07, 2006 3:05 pm

Get out the emissions read out and go here to compare

http://www.interro.com/techgas.html

Sun May 07, 2006 3:21 pm

Here's my readings.....

Hydorcarbons load 218 standard 500 -- pass
Hydrcarbons Idle 625 standard 500 -- fail

Carbon Monoxide load 4.11 standard 4.20 -- pass
Carbon Monoxide Idle 7.28 standard 5.50 -- fail

It will pass all of the tests at the garage. I drive just over one mile to the testing site and there it fails.

Thanks for the link.

Sun May 07, 2006 3:23 pm

What distributor do you have and how do you have it timed?

Heat risers working?

Sun May 07, 2006 3:27 pm

not sure about timing, garage set that. It still has the stock dstributor. No heat risers

Mon May 08, 2006 1:58 am

So just drive the one mile back to the shop and have them sniff it again. If it shows good when they check it again and the readings are the same, it would show you that the engine hasn't changed. If they set it all to pass, and it didn't, they must have a problem with either their instrumentation or their adjustments. But if you paid them to set it to pass, they owe you. They should be able to get it dialed in so that any small fluctuations will still be in the good range.

At the testing station, they have a listing of their recommended shops. Is your shop on that list?

Mon May 08, 2006 3:09 am

Desertbusman wrote: ..., they must have a problem with either their instrumentation or their adjustments.

I say the problem is in the mechanic's head. If the car blew 7% CO at the testing stn, there's no way in hell it was clean in his shop. It sounds like he doesn't know how to use the EGA. The idle CO should be somewhere between 1 and 2%. Same for the loaded CO, although that can be lower.

Mon May 08, 2006 6:23 am

In order to pass your emissions test, you'll need to do a couple of things. If you retard the timing a few degrees and increase the idle speed, that will fix the HC issue. To fix the CO problem, you'll need to lean out the mixture. Since you live in Arizona (like I do), bear in mind that you'll need to do this test every year, so I recommend that you don't rely on your mechanic to do your tune ups, since it will cost you some buck every time. It's pretty easy to do the adjustments, even without a sniffer analyzer.

Mon May 08, 2006 6:40 am

i don't understand why arizona wants such old cars like my 71 to pass emissions... but its ok, i'm only here till june 30th for school, so i'll register it in texas when i get back...

Mon May 08, 2006 6:49 am

In Arizona, everything newer than 1966 needs to be emissions tested every year if you live in the Tucson or Phoenix area :evil: . This is a real pain in the neck if you have an early to mid '70s car. I have to go through a set of adjustments every year on my 76 Bug just prior to my test, so I've gotten pretty good at it.

_________________________________________________________________________________
61 Bus, 76 Standard Beetle, 81 Vanagon, 84 Porsche 928, 2000 New Beetle

Mon May 08, 2006 10:47 am

61 BUS wrote: In order to pass your emissions test, you'll need to do a couple of things. If you retard the timing a few degrees and increase the idle speed, that will fix the HC issue. To fix the CO problem, you'll need to lean out the mixture. Since you live in Arizona (like I do), bear in mind that you'll need to do this test every year, .

He doesn't need to mess with the timing. The high HC is due to his puking rich carburator settings. Lean it out to where it should be and the HC will come down nicely. Then leave it where it passes.

Right now, it probably is on the verge of fouling spark plugs. It gets really crappy mileage, and is down on hp. This car is a shining example of why AZ needs the annual smog test.

Mon May 08, 2006 3:59 pm

Hydorcarbons
loaded 125............standard 500 -- pass
Idle reading 167....standard 500 -- pass

Carbon Monoxide
loaded 0.71...........standard 4.20 -- pass
Idle reading 1.56...standard 5.50 -- pass

My test 6 weeks ago. Very, very little fluctuations in the last 8 annual tests. I don't do anything before the test, just drive it in.
Stock 1600, 009 dizzy, Pertronix, 34PICT3 Solex. I've had to rebuild the carb a couple times but havn't touched the ignition in the 8 years. It failed once, the equipment test. The gas cap needed replacing.

So my question would be about performance engines and how that affects emissions? Does getting it to pass need different settings than having it run good? Stock engines should run good and pass at the same time.

Arizona testing on old cars? Yes, we need it. Polution problems are bad here.

What's the name of the shop?

Mon May 08, 2006 4:47 pm

Elysian wrote: i don't understand why arizona wants such old cars like my 71 to pass emissions... but its ok, i'm only here till june 30th for school, so i'll register it in texas when i get back...

i have a 69 that is waiting on a new engine. i flunked emissions and they sent me to an "approved" mechanic, not a VW mechanic, to look over the car. i told him what my mechanic had told me, that one of my cylinders was bad and i needed an engine. the "approved" mechanic had the car for two days, told me the same thing i already knew, wanted to charge me $3000 for a new engine, and then charged me $50 for telling me what i already knew when i told him i didn't want a $3000 engine.

i have temp tags on the car now and my rebuilt engine has arrived from CA. hopefully the rebuilt will get me thru emissions with no trouble. but i agree, the arizona rules are screwed up, there is no reason for a car that old to have to go through emissions at all let alone every year.

i keep hearing rumors that they are going to "adjust" the year for the cut off on emissions testing, but i've been hearing that same rumor for five years now.

Mon May 08, 2006 6:34 pm

To solve your problem move to a Rural County. I know of several people that have propery in Rural AZ. counties and you know what that is where there cars are registered.

Tue May 09, 2006 12:03 am

jnamio wrote: the arizona rules are screwed up, there is no reason for a car that old to have to go through emissions at all let alone every year.

Seems to me like the Arizona rules are pretty good. They accomplished getting your poluting engine off the road. :lol:

And awhile back they also got my old bus engine off the road. :oops:

So if they changed to test every other year, there would have been at least two old VW's screwing up the air for an additional year. Sure miss the clear skies we used to have here. Now it's like the LA basin gets on a bad day.

Tue May 09, 2006 1:59 am

Desertbusman wrote:
Carbon Monoxide
loaded 0.71...........standard 4.20 -- pass
Idle reading 1.56...standard 5.50 -- pass

Bruce wrote:
The idle CO should be somewhere between 1 and 2%. Same for the loaded CO, although that can be lower.

Look at that! His numbers are right where I said they should be. I bet it gets decent mileage too.

Desertbusman wrote:
So my question would be about performance engines and how that affects emissions? Does getting it to pass need different settings than having it run good? Stock engines should run good and pass at the same time.

Nope. On any healthy engine there's no need to "cheat" to pass.

My engine is 2 liters with 40 DRLAs. It makes about 120hp and is installed in a 75, so that means the numbers are really tight. It has passed without issue the last 4 years. No funny business needed.

Tue May 09, 2006 6:09 am

HC readings are highly dependent on the carburetor settings and the timing. On a stock engine, if you're off of the factory setting just a little bit on either one, you'll fail the emissions tests here in Arizona. Both of my "later" model air cooled VWs (76 Beetle and 81 Vanagon) are bone stock, so I've never had to deal with how to get a modified engine to pass emissions. I can tell you, though, that just a small change in the timing will make a big difference in your HC emissions, as I've discovered. Also, for those interested, you will have a very difficult time meeting the CO standard in Arizona if, for some reason, your catalytic converter is not working properly in your '75 or later VW. This happened to me when I first went to have my 76 Bug tested. No matter what I did, I couldn't get it to pass CO. Turned out the previous owner gutted the catalytic converter so that it was just a "through pipe". I bought and installed a new one, and my CO emissions dropped to well below the requirement.

Last year (I think), Arizona looked at adopting a "rolling" emissions law that would exempt vehicles 25 years or older from emissions testing. That didn't pass, so it's still required that all cars newer than 1966 pass an emissions test annually.

For the record, it's not the handful of classic VW's that miss meeting the emisisons standards by a few PPM that are causing the air pollution problem in Arizona. It all of those damned diesel trucks that spew soot and crap and are not subject to the same emissions requirement as the rest of us. It's also the damned SUV's and enormous trucks that these idiots are buying that are also not required to meet the same emissions standards as the rest of us :evil: (Rant)

___________________________________________________________________________________
61 Bus, 76 Standard Beetle, 81 Vanagon, 84 Porsche 928, 2000 Beetle

Tue May 09, 2006 7:08 am

I left the VALLEY of the Sun 21 years ago and the skies were starting to get brown/grey, yes it was the Valley of the Sun then but now when I drive down from the high country you can see the brown cloud from Payson. Keep em clean and the air you breath will be better for you.

Tue May 09, 2006 10:20 am

hopefully my new engine (sitting on a loading dock in west phoenix) will end my emissions issues once and for all.

i'd just like to know that the redneck neighbor across the street with the gawdawful chevy pickup with the confederate flag and the blasting crap music is ALSO having to go through emissions yearly. but i know he takes it to one of those shady places on Van Buren, gets it "fixed" to pass, and then adjusts it back to polluting up a storm as soon as his tags are renewed.

Tue May 09, 2006 12:29 pm

Remember that the emissions test requirements are based on a percentage of HC and CO coming out of the tailpipe. Therefore, vehicles that get 15 MPG generate twice as much pollution as vehicles that get 30 MPG, assuming the same PPM of HC and %CO.