TheSamba.com :: View topic

Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:10 pm

I need to order a oil temp gauge for my buggy. I have cockpit white VDO gauges. What do I need to order for the gauge and sender. I'm a little confused, too much to choose from.

Where does the sender typically go? I have oil pressure gauge, is the temp sender part of the pressure sender?

Mark in Raleigh

Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:40 pm

I'm not sure which actual sender you need. Obviously one that's matched to your guage. The senders I've seen are generally mounted in place of the oil drain plug. The only problem is they get pretty beat up by road debris and other FOD(foreign object damage). If you have a remote oil filter, it might be possible to T in the sender there.

Check out CB Performance's website. They have some good info and a pretty decent selection of VDO guages/senders.

Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:49 pm

Thanks for the info. I'll check it out.

What is normal operationg temp for oil?

Mark in Raleigh

Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:02 am

after trial and error here is what i got. i have the vdo through-lit vision series gauges.

T adapter-vw male, M10x1 p/n 240-850
temp sender, 300F/150C, M10x1 p/n 323-423
pressure sender,0-150 psi, M10x1 p/n 360-023

all were in stock here and i got them within 3 days:
http://www.egauges.com/default.asp

i have the 'T' out of the stock pressure sender location. then the pressure sender out of that. one line off that goes to the gauge, the other to the pressure light in the stock speedo. out of the bottom of the 'T' i have the temp sender and that has a single wire going to the gauge.
the temp sender had a spade plug. the pressure sender has 2 ring plugs.

Sat Jun 17, 2006 7:24 am

Thanks for the pics, helps a bunch!

Great site. I see that the temp gauge has water standard. Did you have to order "Oil" specifically? I have the pressure sender without the idiot light contact. Looks the same except for that.

I just need the T and the temp sender and gauge.

What temp range do I need? Am I going to have to order a special range on the dial? Do you know the normal operating temp for a bug motor?

Mark

Sat Jun 17, 2006 7:58 am

I have this setup for my pressure/temp sender: part number 2355.

http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=837

I have a remote oil filter set up and will be attaching both senders there. The pressure sender I have is for pressure only, no light. I'm using a GM style idiot light switch in the case. I have not verified this, but I have read some comments about hanging that much stuff off the pressure boss on the block. Apparently there has been some problems with pressure sensors going bad from all the vibration. I'm not sure where else you'd mount it, tho, and still get decent temp readings. I'm thinking there was also a sender that mounted in one of the oil pressure relief plugs. Good luck!

Sat Jun 17, 2006 7:59 am

It is some where around 180, mine has seen 220 on a hot run. Most of them go up to 300 I believe. I mounted mine the the oil slump area in the front of the engine. it gets a good reading of true temperatures.

Sat Jun 17, 2006 8:54 am

Jimmler,

I like that dual mount. I ordered one of those and a temp sender through CB. I really don't have another location that is good. I do have remote filter also.

THe gauge they offered was for Cylinder head temp. I need to go to VDO to see if they have a "oil" temp. I guess the cylinder temp gauge would work, goes up to 600 I believe. Wonder how accurate it is since there is such a broad range.

Anyone know of a Oil Temp gauge from VDO cockpit white?

Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:48 pm

CB Performance has the VDO Cockpit guage in black(that's what I have), but they don't list a white one. Seems unlikely that they would not have it in both colors. Check VDO's website and find someone else who might carry it.

Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:43 pm

Mark,

Good reading - FYI

http://www.geneberg.com/article.php?ArticleID=239

Borrowed from Berg's website - I still consider him the master... I added bold/italics...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why We Don't Sell Gauges? - Technical lnfo

"I hear daily of engines being destroyed by people relying on gauges. I have run hundreds of accuracy tests on practically every inexpensive aftermarket gauge under $125 offered. Practically all read low in the 212 to 260 degree range by 40 to 50 degrees on oil temperature and head temperature gauges in the 250 to 550 degree reading range, again being low by as much as 250 or more degrees. I tested about twenty each of most brands such as VDO, Smith, Stewart Warner, Hawk, etc., and found none without these problems.
Oil temperature gauge readings would be 212 to 220 degrees on the gauge when the true test temperature was 240 to 260 degrees. Head temperature gauges read 385 degrees with a true test temperature of 550 plus degrees. When head test temperatures were upped to 700 degrees, the reading of the gauge went up to 390 to 395 degrees. The price range of such gauges was from $60 to $125. I swapped gauges with senders and got different readings. I found nothing in that price range I would wish on my worst enemy. Not one I tested could ever be properly calibrated or relied on in any way for any valid information or even as a comparison from day to day on the air cooled VW.

Yes, even the oil pressure gauges were just as bad. I found good accurate gauges range from about $250 to $350 and few people would buy them. What was needed was a device that gave the information required and was reasonably priced. That was the reason for the GB 227 in the first place. It is specifically made and calibrated to provide an accurate reading in the ranges of the VW air cooled engine. Originated by Hal Brown in 1972. Made in the USA.

Note: If you must install an oil pressure gauge use GB 264-1/8 tee fitting and GB 265-1/8 pipe nipple to install the factory (Bosch VWA021-919-081B) light sending unit and the gauge together as the factory sender and light are over 100 times as fast to tell you if you run out of oil. Never use any sender that has the pressure and a light combination as they are extremely slow and you lose the rapid action that the factory light sender provides.

Warning: If you want gauges as a decoration fine, but never rely on them. After all, if they provided reliable information I would be selling them to make a profit just like our competition."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For your consideration -

B in North Raleigh

Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:42 pm

Bryan,

If all of the gauges are unreliable shouldn't VDO, etc be out of business by now. No one would buy another gauge from that company because the word would spread quickly.

What does the GB227 link to. A gauge? A light? How does the dipstick tell the driver that the oil is overtemp?

What would you recommend?

Mark in Raleigh

Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:50 pm

ygubenud wrote: Bryan,

If all of the gauges are unreliable shouldn't VDO, etc be out of business by now. No one would buy another gauge from that company because the word would spread quickly.

you mean like engines and GEX? doesn't always work like that.

Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:04 pm

I'm not dissing Gene Berg or his company. I'm running one of his oil pumps and it's a quality part. But a lot of the information on their website is similar to the book: "Hot to Hot Rod Your VW": It's all very dated. It's good reading and it certainly helps understand the whole VW powerplant, but unless you've figured out a way to make your WayBack machine get to 1975, you've got to take it all with a grain of salt. The EMPI stuff pictured in that book was good stuff. Look at it now. It's offshore crap.

I have a VDO voltmeter, oil temp, and oil pressure gauge. The idiot lights are there, too. I'm not looking for precision traceable to NIST. If it's off by 30 degrees, so be it. I'm looking for temp/pressure swings out of the ordinary. If I'm cruising down the road and I have a red light on and the gauge still says 30 psi, I'm gonna stop and have a look-see.

Soapbox mode: OFF

Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:50 pm

Mark,

How GB 227 works:

http://www.geneberg.com/cat.php?name=How%20GB%2022...64024133db

Recommendation: Just go with a quality stock temp sending unit & idiot light, i.e., stock stuff works well. If you want a gauge to fill a hole in the dash (geez, can't keep the hole saw out of your hands now, can I?), then by all means, put in a gauge - The essence of Berg's studies still stands; lights will show issues quickers than gauges.

Jimmler wrote: I'm not dissing Gene Berg or his company. I'm running one of his oil pumps and it's a quality part. But a lot of the information on their website is similar to the book: "Hot to Hot Rod Your VW": It's all very dated. It's good reading and it certainly helps understand the whole VW powerplant, but unless you've figured out a way to make your WayBack machine get to 1975, you've got to take it all with a grain of salt. The EMPI stuff pictured in that book was good stuff. Look at it now. It's offshore crap.

I have a VDO voltmeter, oil temp, and oil pressure gauge. The idiot lights are there, too. I'm not looking for precision traceable to NIST. If it's off by 30 degrees, so be it. I'm looking for temp/pressure swings out of the ordinary. If I'm cruising down the road and I have a red light on and the gauge still says 30 psi, I'm gonna stop and have a look-see.

Soapbox mode: OFF

Jimmler - No soap-boxes here... I know Mark personally & led him to the yellow beauty he is now driving & I don't want to see him break his new toy!

I have some problems following your line of logic, but I'll attempt a stab at it - no harm, no foul

If EMPI stuff was good back in '75, but is offshore crap now (your comment), and if Berg found VDO/etc., gauges in '75 to be crap, and THEN making an educated deduction that the quality probably hasn't improved because making improvements to things generally costs $$, then wouldn't that make the VDO/etc., gauges of today super-duper-uber-crap? :? I won't outright call them crap, but their accuracy is suspect. I've actually owned multiple sets of VDO gauges in the 17 a/c VW's in the family since I started turning wrenches on my 69 Beetle in 1978 & have seen 15-20+ degree differences in oil temp readings between 2-3 gauges tested on the same sensor... open a box & try another :shock:

The majority of 'lower price' gauges on the market today are not very accurate; the marketers realize that people will spend money for the look & bling of a set of gauges. The automakers produce gauges in new cars that are also highly suspect as to their accuracy... I've read numerous articles over the years regarding gauge inaccuracies in both new cars & gauges from the aftermarket. I have seen factory & aftermarket gauges in my own vehicles that had highly suspicious readings. Kinda like O2 sensors; single & 3-wire will give you a rough ballpark reading, but true accuracy is found in $300+ WEGO O2 sensors - quality costs money - 'nuf said.

My money says that Berg's assessment of VDO gauges is still on the money today - bubble machine off

Mr Bubble

Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:53 pm

Mark,

Another grain-of-salt - How to know when your engine is hot -

http://www.geneberg.com/cat.php?name=How%20to%20kn...64024133db

Whether it's 1975 or 2006, a hot engine is still a hot engine - :)

bnc

Thu Jun 22, 2006 10:32 am

I remember when I read the owners manual to my 93 s-10 it clearly and plainly said to not rely on the guages for accurate information. The guages are intended to tell you if things are working. A low reading is not necessarily low and a high reading is not necessarily high and so it is advised that a guages reading should be checked against the idiot light and or an independent test at a repair shop.

Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:51 pm

I have a VDO Cylinder Head Temp gauge with the sender under the #3 spark plug. I also have a VDO Oil Pressure gauge with the dual sender.

I checked the accuracy of the CHT gauge with one of those thermal guns. The gauge was close, but read a little high. The CHT gauge does show an increase in temperature as I climb a hill, and a decrease upon descent. Freeway driving returns a higher CHT than around town or off road cruising. Seems normal enough.

I ran straight 30 weight oil on a 96 degree day during my first desert trip with the Manx. The gauge showed a drop in oil pressure, the light flickered at idle, and the dipstick was almost too hot to touch. All these things mean the engine was too hot. Switching to 40 weight on the next trip solved the problem, and the oil pressure gauge confirmed it.

The actual numbers are not as important as the consistency of the gauges. Has anyone checked to see if the gauges read the same value at a given temperature / pressure for numerous tests? The gauges in my car seem to be very predictable, so I consider them to be good indicators of the engine's basic running condition.

Lee

Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:02 pm

ok...so what guages can i trust then? Autometer? I want to buy one but not sure who sells them.

Thu Oct 19, 2006 8:15 am

Ok do any of you guys know who has the best prices on the VDO guages w/black faces? I need the ones below, I did my layout on dash and I am ready to order thanks.

-Mechanical Speedo (3-1/8th I believe)

-Tach (3-1/8th I believe)

-Fuel w/stock sender (2-1/16th)

-Electric Oil pressure (2-1/16th)

-Voltmeter (2-1/16th)

Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:15 am

I've got the white cockpit VDO temp gauge you are speaking of. It's mounted like the pic posted. Typically my temp never reaches 180 even during the hottest days in the summer. In the winter time it never moves off the peg. I am told that it's not so much the temp your gauge reads as much as it is showing spikes or temps hotter than whats normal for your engine.
Hope this helps.