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Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:29 pm

crofty wrote: Wouldn't it also have a manual choke and the fuel pump looks wrong.
Manual choke, and fuel pump pressure line would exit vertically to the carb.

Bastardbus,
You mentioned the pistons and cylinders are unique, also. Can you elaborate?

Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:50 pm

VW Vet wrote:

Bastardbus,
You mentioned the pistons and cylinders are unique, also. Can you elaborate?

Yes, the outter diameter of the top of the cylinder is different (smaller I recall) from stock 40hp cylinders. Same with the bastard heads they match the bastard cylinders. I remeber when rebuilding mine I found out stock 40hp p/cs can NOT be used with bastard heads and vice versa. You HAVE to use bastard p/cs with bastard heads period. I remeber this clearly as even the copper/asbestos gasket between the cylinder and head is bastard only! I searched and searched and eventually had to buy a NOS bastard gasket set here on the samba for some $$$ to get them! They were larger then 36s and smaller then 40s I recall.

I have a couple sets of used p/cs in the shed and can take a picture or two. I actually scored a NOS set which I rebuilt my `60 camper's engine with. Still have the box with the part number which I saved the used ones in. The bastard ones even look different then 40s....I recall they lacked that machined groove around top of the cylinder 40s have as well as some other things I can not recall...I tried to sell the set on the samba years back with not a single person interested! Wanted $40 for the set honed with new rings!Sorry they are not for sale now...I scored another engine I want to use them on....anyhow I will snap some pics tonight!

Todd

Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:58 pm

bastardbus wrote: anyhow I will snap some pics tonight!

Todd

I want to see the picture of you after taking delivery of the NOS set!

Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:51 pm

This cylinder was removed from the engine shown in the first post of this thread. It was in position #3. The other cylinders do not have the narrowed section like this one.

Has anyone seen this type? What is the purpose of the reduced diameter area and how long were they issued?

Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:22 pm

My original 40 horse pistons all had that. I was told by VW parts guys it was a gas trap and to make sure the copper seals were installed accurately. Apparently it helps it cool at the hot end of the stroke? It sure was hard getting the seals aligned and even seeing them in place.

Sat Aug 26, 2006 5:53 am

Here is a head removed from the engine in this thread. It is a bastard head, but I suspect it is a 2nd generation. The little chamber over the rocker box has no holes leading into the rocker box, and there is no provision for bolting on a separate cover for the little chamber, as pictured in the Bentley manual. I would bet the original intent of the chamber was to vent the crankcase/rocker box. The little cover and holes into the rocker box seem to have disappeared in January '60 when the #2 main bearing web was cut to improve crankcase internal pressure equalization. The now unused chamber went away in June '61.

Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:32 pm

Here is a reference photo of the Bastard distributor:

This one seems a bit strange given that it has a date code of 4P (April, 1958) and the wire instead of solid clips.

Mon Aug 28, 2006 2:55 pm

here's a bastard fuel pump i have. notice how the fuel outlet line sticks straight up, and the casting where the tube enters is not tapped with a block-off screw. some early 40hp pumps have a vertical outlet that looks similar, but with a bent pipe, and that casting boss has a screw in it, maybe for cleaning it out?.

i saw an NOS bastard case at a show over the summer, and it was pretty interesting. it did not have that weird webbing under the distributor down the side. HUGE main seal area, 36hp sized main bearing holes. cool.

Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:04 pm

hazetguy wrote: here's a bastard fuel pump i have. notice how the fuel outlet line sticks straight up, and the casting where the tube enters is not tapped with a block-off screw. some early 40hp pumps have a vertical outlet that looks similar, but with a bent pipe, and that casting boss has a screw in it, maybe for cleaning it out?.

i saw an NOS bastard case at a show over the summer, and it was pretty interesting. it did not have that weird webbing under the distributor down the side. HUGE main seal area, 36hp sized main bearing holes. cool.

I remember seeing a tech bulletin about bending the pipe for clearance, Clarence.

Mon Aug 28, 2006 3:58 pm

Well, VW vet and myself have been pooling information and plan on adding a ton of info to this thread. Very interesting stuff and most of it very contrary to the old wive's tales told about Bastard engines.

Just for a taste, looks like there was 3 styles of bastard case. The first being the flawed thrust at #2 design the 2 others had the thrust at #1 and problems mostly solved. This is probably the reason for several existing bastard engines still running and in good shape.

More detailed info to come!
Todd

Mon Aug 28, 2006 4:52 pm

My heads left last Friday for VW Vet. I hope they are what he was looking for.

Thu Sep 07, 2006 6:10 pm

Here is some more info about the Bastard Engine.

Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:42 pm

i have a bastard motor and it runs cherry i havent had any problems with it yet opps knock on wood

Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:07 pm

vdubinit wrote: i have a bastard motor and it runs cherry i havent had any problems with it yet opps knock on wood

Please, tell us what your engine number is!

As VWVet continues the Bastard information thread he has been putting together with some help by yours truely, you will see that only the First Generation Bastard engines had the castostrophic failures due to the main bearing thrust being taken at the #2 main bearing.
With the Second and Third generation Bastard engines, VW fixed the "bastard engine failure problem" when they moved the crankshaft thrust back to the #1 main bearing as in the previous 36 hp engines. Thus you will find many of the 2nd and 3rd generation bastard engines that have led normal happy lives.

It is only the first generation bastard engines that had these failures. Now if someone has a first genertaion bastard engine with the thrust still at the #2 main bearing still running and driving...well THEN you have something there! I have yet to see one of these still running or an original that has not destroyed itself some decades ago.

Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:07 pm

I neglected to give credit to bastardbus for the picture of the 1st generation bastard head. Also, the pictures of the 3rd generation bastard head are of one of the two Russ Wolfe sent me. After cleaning and inspection, they are almost like new. No need for a valve job or valve guide replacement. Just a little lapping compound is all they will need. Thanks, Russ. I will have to do some research into the valve seat/lead free gas issue, though.

Fri Sep 08, 2006 5:37 pm

VW Vet wrote: I neglected to give credit to bastardbus for the picture of the 1st generation bastard head. Also, the pictures of the 3rd generation bastard head are of one of the two Russ Wolfe sent me. After cleaning and inspection, they are almost like new. No need for a valve job or valve guide replacement. Just a little lapping compound is all they will need. Thanks, Russ. I will have to do some research into the valve seat/lead free gas issue, though.

My late59/60 SC had a basterd in it. The speedo shows 27000 original miles when it was parked due to engine failure. When I bought the bus, the engine was gone, but all the basterd exterior parts were still with it in a box.
A big bore 40 hp was built using all the basterd engine tin and bolt ons.

Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:27 pm

EverettB wrote: The bastard heads require a bastard valve cover with a cutout on the top for the boss.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=3150

I was wondering what these where for. I almost threw them away.

Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:48 am

How about these then: a pair of 113 101 371 heads with later style valve covers, without chambers below manifold. Otherwise they are similar to 40hp heads except for cylinder openings: 87mm instead of 90mm.

Perhaps a 4th generation replacement for the bastard heads?

Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:14 am

skyto wrote: How about these then: a pair of 113 101 371 heads with later style valve covers, without chambers below manifold. Otherwise they are similar to 40hp heads except for cylinder openings: 87mm instead of 90mm.

Perhaps a 4th generation replacement for the bastard heads?

wouldn't it be a 77mm?

Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:09 pm

crofty wrote:

wouldn't it be a 77mm?

87 = outer diameter. The heads are unused because of this.