TheSamba.com :: View topic - 3-Point Rear Seat Belt Install

Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:18 pm

Steelhead wrote: j_dirge wrote: If a bracket could be manufactured.. we'd be back in business.
Happy to collaborate. This bracket looks easy enough to replicate.

it is very easy to replicate. and yes, they are mirror images. I did both sides, and they are perfect. I purchased a couple of 3 point belts like these, and they worked great.
http://www.seatbeltsplus.com/category/3-Point-Retractable-Seat-Belts.html

You will need a seat belt bolt for the top link of the shoulder belt. It is an odd size, so you probably should source it from a parts vehicle.
here is a pic of mine from the back. The top link (by the curtain) is the place you need that special sized seat belt bolt. The bottom bolt behind the panel that connects to the "upsidedown T" bracket you are going to fab up can be a standard sourced grade 8 etc.

Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:08 am

j_dirge wrote:

The OEM bracket has 3 holes.. as I recall. Flat plate stock? (I have a driver's side one here in may garage.)

The driver's side and passenger side are mirrored.. is my guess.

Finding a seat belt that fits in the recess would be step 2. But I think, from futzing around.. it should not be difficult.

If you want to team up on this, I'd be interested. We can reverse engineer from the OEM belt I have here.
Last I checked the passenger side OEMs at BD were sold out. If a bracket could be manufactured.. we'd be back in business.

They are mirror images. The flat bracket at the bottom is
welded at different angles. I seen pictures online somewhere
that a pass side belt was made out of a factory drivers side
by removing and rewelding that flat bracket with the three
holes. I have a set I can dig out to take pictures or measurements
from if you need it.
I have a set of the GoWesty ones and the kids hate them. They
have a hard time pulling them out as they lock up really easy.
After I install the headrest in the rear seat this weekend I am
putting the factory belt in the pass side. I have a drivers side
but don't think it's long enough to use in a camper.
If I could find a weekender interior in grey close by I would
install it. Just so I could have factory three point belts on
both sides.

Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:21 am

BillM wrote: I have a set I can dig out to take pictures or measurements
from if you need it.

Bill-
This would be super helpful. I'd bet there are a bunch of people watching this thread looking for the right solution.

Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:34 am

Steelhead wrote: BillM wrote: I have a set I can dig out to take pictures or measurements
from if you need it.

Bill-
This would be super helpful. I'd bet there are a bunch of people watching this thread looking for the right solution.

I will take some pics/measurements and post them later
today. With them side by side it will show what needs
to be done to make a drivers side work on the pass side.

Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:24 am

BillM wrote: Steelhead wrote: BillM wrote: I have a set I can dig out to take pictures or measurements
from if you need it.

Bill-
This would be super helpful. I'd bet there are a bunch of people watching this thread looking for the right solution.

I will take some pics/measurements and post them later
today. With them side by side it will show what needs
to be done to make a drivers side work on the pass side.
Very helpful.

I have one here as well (Steelhead is just across the bridge from me)
We could likely drill out the OEM retractor from the OEM bracket I have. Who cares if I spent $120 on it.. :shock:

Trace it and have a bunch cut at a laser place. :D

If there is intersst we can price it out for a bulk production run.
What say ye?

Then:
Rather than a pressed post mount as in OEM we just use a proper grade nut, lockwasher an bolt

What is the length of the OEM front 3pt belt vs the OEM rear 3pt belt?
I'll try and check that today.

Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:12 pm

The retractor is just bolted on. The reel part may be the same
on another vw and just the bracket needs to be made. It does
look like a pass can be made out of a drivers with some grinding
of four welds and rewelding in a different position.

Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:06 am

Thanks Bill. This is great. So what I'm seeing is that the vertical perpendicular piece is not quite perpendicular and that it has a step/bend in it to hold the reel futher into the cavity.

Replicating the step/bend is the only challenge here, otherwise this looks easy. I'm not sure the vertical piece needs to be welded at all, as the bolt holding it to the horizontal piece can do all the work - and hold the angle (for those w/o welding equipment).

I think my approach will be to order the aftermarket reels, and then see how much of a bend/step the vertical piece needs to fit properly in the cavity. If anyone has any off-the-shelf ideas for the step, please chime in. It could be as simple as using angle iron for the horizontal, and then another piece of angle iron bolted/welded on top (imagine a backwards "L" in cross-section), making for an offset into the cavity. The reel could be bolted to this, or to a piece of flat stock.

Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:43 am

The "step" could be omitted by using a washer between the
two metal pieces if your bolting them instead of welding together.
I'll take a side profile picture later so it's easier to understand.
The way the factory belts are installed any force on this part
of the belt would be pulling straight up on it. I would think
the top anchor would be getting the most stress as its getting
pulled on at an angle. There is only one bolt holding the reel
to the bracket. I'll also measure how long the web part of
the belt is later when I take the side picture. It will make
it easier to figure out what belts/reels can be adapted.
Anything has to be better than the GoWesty rear belts that
my kids despise.

Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:59 am

I was looking at my driver's side rear 3 point last night.

Any reason why one could not cut/grind the welds... then reattach at proper angle using a bolt thru the center?
Maybe adding a set screw to hold it in place at the correct angle.

At $120 from Bus Depot, you'd be done.

Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:07 am

j_dirge wrote: I was looking at my driver's side rear 3 point last night.

Any reason why one could not cut/grind the welds... then reattach at proper angle using a bolt thru the center?
Maybe adding a set screw to hold it in place at the correct angle.

At $120 from Bus Depot, you'd be done.

You could do exactly that and just use the existing mounting
bolt to hold it together. I personally would weld it though.
It's just four small tacks. At the least four small decent grade
bolts in each corner. As they are mirror images just measure
the angle it's at now. Grind of welds. Keeping a bolt through
the existing mounting hole/welded on nut. Use the angles you
measured just on opposite sides. Then weld or bolt together.

Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:21 am

j_dirge wrote: I was looking at my driver's side rear 3 point last night.

Any reason why one could not cut/grind the welds... then reattach at proper angle using a bolt thru the center?
Maybe adding a set screw to hold it in place at the correct angle.

At $120 from Bus Depot, you'd be done.
So the bus depot belt reels are meant to be mounted "wart-style" on the upper mount on the inside of the cab, right? If so these may not work. I'll explain....I just miraculously dug out a set of vanagon front seat belts that I found at a pick-n-pull a long time ago. I was planning on using them to upgrade the front belts of my 77 bus to retractables (but that never happened). These belts are 122" long, which looks like enough for the rear bench. The reel/locking mechanism is very precise and requires that the reel be held perfectly vertical for the belt to feed out. If I hold it horizontal or even slanted a a bit, the belt does not feed easily (or at all). So if the BD ones are designed to mount horizontally, then the belt might not feed vertically. Only one way to find out. Come to think of it, this might part of the issue with the GW belts....maybe they are vertical belts that are not intended for horizontal use?

With this easter-egg surprise in my parts collection, I think I have everything I need to attack this project. Everything but time. These front reels are almost 3" wide, which could be a problem. However, I'm thinking that with the molded rear panels of the carat this may not be issue (and I may not need the step at all).

Bill- I do like the idea of washers for the step. Will consider once I get into my sidewalls. The carat panels are a chore. I need to remove the rear bench!

Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:47 am

The GoWesty ones mount on the top bolt up high. They are on
top of panel.
The Busdepot one is a factory belt just like I pictured only
it's angled for the drivers side.
The belt reel is about 3 1/2 inches wide at the base. Holding
it up to my front reel it's similar. It mounts in the same
upright position that the Busdepot factory one does. Keep
in mind the factory ones mount low behind the panel with
the part the belt slides through bolted up high on top
of the panel.
The bracket bottom part with the three holes is
7 x 1 7/8.
The part the reel is bolted to is 3 1/2x1 7/8.

Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:49 am

Hmmm...the more I look at this, the more I'm considering the GW solution, though I don't like hearing that belts are tricky to pull out. With the carat AC panels, the high-mounted warts may actually not be the end of the world, and it will save me some bracket fab'ing and trial n' error adapting my wider reels to get under the side panels. And which is worse....visible reels up high, or vertical webbing coming out of the paneling and catching on stuff thrown in the trunk?

Putting the reels up high will be 80% less labor. Dang...if only my salvage reels worked horizontally!

Sat Sep 08, 2012 10:59 am

The GoWesty ones are just one bolt. They mount
easy all you have to do is find that
one upper nut behind the panel. Make a hole
in the panel and bolt it up. Bolt the other
end to where your lap belt was. Re-use the
female end in its original location.
The driver side if you have a cabinet takes
a little more work as you have to cut a slot
for the belt to pass through.
If you want simple the GoWesty ones
are the way to go.
The Busdepot one is a factory part that
requires it to be mounted behind the panel.
It's also only available for the drivers side and would
need to be modified to work on the pass side.
There are pros and cons to each.

Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:31 am

Decided to go with "factory" location, not because I prefer them, but because I had some salvage vertical mount reels already and didn't want to spend the $200 from GW for the D-pillar mounted ones. If these verticals mount ones worked on the horizontal, I probably would have mounted them directly to the D-pillar. The factory vertical mount (cavity) requires more fabrication and more prep (removing bench seat...PITA).

Having never taken the carat plastic housing off, I discovered a few things.

Can anyone tell me about these yellow fuses? The forward one is burnt...what's its circuit?

What the heck is all this red dust doing behind the passenger side panel? I've been on a few short red roads but this doesn't make sense. First, its not on the driver's side at all, and second, I've taken this to to burningman several times so this dust should be white if this intrusion was an ongoing problem. I think I inherited it from the PO. Thoughts on where it is/was entering on the passenger side only?

Ok, here's the driver's side belt going in. Instead of using a t-bracket, I just reinforced the base with a piece if 1.5" wide flat stock steel, and bolted the reel through the center hole. I used a few big washers on the other side to move the reel further into the cavity. I think the T-bracket might help to move the reel further up, which could make for slightly better angle on the webbing feed, but this works. Still need to cut the slot at the front of the plastic cowl, but so far the belt is retracting pretty well and locking as its supposed to.

Will update progress in the next couple days.

Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:17 pm

Looking good, SH!

I take it the belt is not rubbing against the sheet metal edge to the rear?
If not, then you're golden, no?

Just need to position the slot for where the belt exits thru your trim panel.
Won't be the same as the Bentley template, obviously.

Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:57 pm

Hi All,

New to the site, but have been following this thread closely.

Has anyone had any success with belts from '92 Jetta as suggested at http://www.kayakwesty.com/seatbelt.html ?

I noticed that there is a pin on the back of the seatbelt housing on the jetta belts. This presumably stopped the housing from twisting in the trunk of the jetta. Should this just be cut off?

Any help would be appreciated. :?

Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:06 pm

Yeah you are gonna have to cut that off, otherwise it wont seat well. Also when removing the seatbelts, DO NOT let the belt retract all the way, otherwise you have to partly dissamble it so that you can release the lock. Best way to do this is to tie a knot in the belt close to the retractor before taking it out of the donor.

Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:16 pm

akyrie wrote: Yeah you are gonna have to cut that off, otherwise it wont seat well. Also when removing the seatbelts, DO NOT let the belt retract all the way, otherwise you have to partly dissamble it so that you can release the lock. Best way to do this is to tie a knot in the belt close to the retractor before taking it out of the donor.

Thanks for the quick reply.
Unfortunately i did let them retract. Is it a major hassle releasing the lock?

Also, what do i do with the piece located on the belt between the main seatbelt mechanism and the latch? ie. the part the was bolted on the pillar of the donor car.

Thx

Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:29 pm

squbbles wrote: Also, what do i do with the piece located on the belt between the main seatbelt mechanism and the latch? ie. the part the was bolted on the pillar of the donor car.

If mounting the reels in the factory location (behind the panel, like mine above) then that metal piece mounts to the D-pillar. All vanagons (I think) have an existing threaded hole to take the bolt that holds that oval slide piece. Mine had black plastic plugs in them.

If you're planning to mount the reels up high- i.e. directly to that threaded hole in the D-pillar (ala busdepot or gowesty), then you would have to remove the steel oval slider. Guessing a hacksaw would get it done. Just be sure your reels work (feed and retract webbing) properly at the angle and direction you intend to mount them. As mentioned above, mine (from vanagon front seats) didn't feed webbing in any position other than vertical. They did not work at a 45 degree angle.

BTW...I used a hacksaw to remove that spike on the back of the reel...no problem.