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  View original topic: Big brake kits for '89 non syncro Vanagon
68fish Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:55 pm

I know that these are Audi parts but from what car? I would like to get the parts direct from my parts guy instead of paying $700 from a catalog. Thanks for the help. :roll:

kevinbassplayer Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:49 pm

This might help:

http://www.smallcar.com/brakekitft.htm

Phil G Sat Sep 16, 2006 8:18 pm

There has been a lot discussed on this subject here and a search will lead you to the appropriate threads. But I'll just say that the problem is not the rotors, calipers or pads. Your do-it-yourself efforts will be most invested in building front hubs, precision adapter plate mounts for the new calipers front and rear, and working out the connection of your existing E-brake cable to the new donor E-brake setup. Myself, I have chosen to use 98' Mercedes Benz ML320/430 rotors, calipers, pads, and E-brake assembly. My choice was based on a few things - They have the correct 5 on 120mm pattern w/ 14mm wheel stud holes. They are from a heavy load-bearing 'truck'. They are big (almost 12", even the rears) but will fit inside my 16" wheel's ID. They work fabulously in their original application. I will be able to order replacment parts for a single model and year. They are cheap to buy parts for. For $200 I was able to buy four new rotors (drilled, slotted, and zinc plated no less!) and that price included both sets of semi-metallic pads. For another $250 I found four good used calipers and the drum E-brake assemblies with backing plates from a wrecker.
Hopefully the stock master cylinder will support the caliper's volumes and therefore no proportion scheme would be needed. If not, I will adapt an ML or S-Class master and determine if a proportioning valve is needed as a result.
The ML's all had ABS, but real men don't need all that crap. I will provide a circuit for the wear indicators though, and install LED's in the accessory panel of the cluster to indicate pad wear limit front or rear.
We'll see how it goes, and I'll take a few shots and notes as I do the deed. Who knows, maybe I'll discover I missed something and I'm full of crap, or on the other hand they may just be awesome. Only one way to find out. . .

By the way, I've heard the bit about the Audi stuff, but there are fewer donors out there and new parts prices seem to be higher than for the ML Benz stuff. And for some wacky reason the big S-class Benz also uses 5 on 120mm w/ 14mm stud holes, but all the brake parts are more pricey than for the ML. The '98 model ML parts are cheaper than 99-on ML's also. Me thinks there's some hosing going on in the parts woodshed . . .

Do have a look for the threads on this subject though, because there are plenty of other good ways to accomplish the upgrades. A number of good guys here put some time into the subject and some may have completed their projects and have valuable insights for you.

A few last thoughts -
In machining up a set of front hubs, for me it is worth updating to a permanent bearing setup like late Mercedes and Volvo's use. This can eliminate wheel bearing service and adjustment for a period often exceeding 100,000 miles.
And it goes without saying you cannot install bigger brakes without increasing wheel diameter.

Sorry . . . the devel's in the detail :twisted:

Best of luck to you -
P

wbx Sat Sep 16, 2006 10:45 pm

Phil G wrote: And for some wacky reason the big S-class Benz also uses 5 on 120mm w/ 14mm stud holes, but all the brake parts are more pricey than for the ML.

You might want to confirm this about the MB stuff... the Vanagon actually uses a 5x112 w/14mm studs bolt pattern. AFAIK, BMW is the German company that uses a 5x120 bolt pattern.

If you are going to go so far to make your own hubs, why limit yourself to the relatively uncommon 5x112 pattern?

And for the original question - look at first generation Audi S4 or S6 (early 90s models) cars for their brake setups. Audi V8s and some wagons also used these components. The rear calipers are very expensive and not the most trouble free, though (the parking brake mechanism freezes up on a lot of them).

vwicked Sun Sep 17, 2006 3:24 am

While sorting out the M-plate of my Westy I discovered that mine is equiped with heavier brakes, identical as these used in the bigger Volkswagen van called LT. I don't think these were ever sold in America so you would have to search these brake parts in Europe.

Grts., Klaas

68fish Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:09 am

Great info, Thanks. I'k thinking I'll do the front brakes first and see how that goes. I'm all for bolt on applications as they can be easily UNbolted if it doesn't work out. I have the 16" GoWesty wheels so my options won't be too limited. Thanks again.

Phil G Sun Sep 17, 2006 1:00 pm

Quote: You might want to confirm this about the MB stuff... the Vanagon actually uses a 5x112 w/14mm studs bolt pattern. AFAIK, BMW is the German company that uses a 5x120 bolt pattern.


Oops, I was a dyslexic over the bolt pattern . . . in short though, they 'fit' the VW pattern. :D

Quote: If you are going to go so far to make your own hubs, why limit yourself to the relatively uncommon 5x112 pattern?

It may be uncommon in that it's not a Ford or Chevy pattern, but I'm not ditching my GoWesty wheels for any others, and my other reasons are already stated above. Actually, where I live the Mercedes pattern and wheels, brakes, etc. are as common as running water :lol:



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