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Tue Sep 19, 2006 10:27 pm

The charging system in the '56 westy emits 6.4 volts. I believe a 6V system is supposed to charge at about 7 V, and well, this one doesn't. Extended use of lights and eberspacher while parked with engine off seemed to drain the year and a half old optima battery.
BTW, the brushes in the generator are good. I also cleaned the commutator with a nail file as per Muir's Idiot Book, and it is all shiny.

It was suggested to adjust the points in the regulator to increase the voltage... testing it with a voltmeter to confirm the adjustment is correct...anyone done this?

Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:31 am

Clara wrote: The charging system in the '56 westy emits 6.4 volts. I believe a 6V system is supposed to charge at about 7 V, and well, this one doesn't. Extended use of lights and eberspacher while parked with engine off seemed to drain the year and a half old optima battery.
BTW, the brushes in the generator are good. I also cleaned the commutator with a nail file as per Muir's Idiot Book, and it is all shiny.

It was suggested to adjust the points in the regulator to increase the voltage... testing it with a voltmeter to confirm the adjustment is correct...anyone done this?

I was just reading up this as my truck is charging at 6.52 volts and not the 7.4 I thought it was supposed too. In my reading I found that some generators are rated at 6-7 volts and others are rated up to 7.5 (appx) volts. I couldn't however find any part number reference only that they both use a square regulator.
I just rebuilt one that has a p# 101 212 003 and my truck has the 101 212 006 installed. Both are rated 7v, 45Amps. I pulled the reg apart and cleaned it and the points but didn't try to adjust it. It scares me.

Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:46 am

crofty wrote: I pulled the reg apart and cleaned it and the points but didn't try to adjust it. It scares me.

They can be adjusted but only the "old school" ones. Most new units now are sealed solid state. They should be cheap enough to just get a new one. My first vehicle being a Fiat 850 with the perenial Italian cheap ass wiring, I was almost constantly dicking with the charging system. There are some obvious adjustment points but they can easily be "over adjusted" to a degree where they will not return to "rest" after the ignition is turned off. This can cause at best premature battery drain and at worst a fatal short throughout the system. :shock:

I'd guess the cost of taking it to an auto electromechanic for test and adjustment could be similar to just buying a replacement outright. :-k

Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:58 am

pyrOman wrote:

I'd guess the cost of taking it to an auto electromechanic for test and adjustment could be similar to just buying a replacement outright. :-k

You're probabily right, but it's fun to play with electricity, no?

Tue May 06, 2008 12:25 pm

bringing back an old post to see if someone can shead some light on adjusting a 6v voltage regulator.
my regulator was allowing 6.34 to the battery at idle and 6.55 at speed. i was getting the generator light at only low idle sometimes. i cleaned the contacts with some 2000 grit paper. now i only get 6.22-6.24. my generator light is now on and doesen't go out until higher rpm's. i obviously took off some material when cleaning up the contacts and need to do a slight adjustment i guess. i know some are going to say buy a new regulator, but i know i can do that already. can someone break down how the regulator works and where the adjustment points are?

Tue May 06, 2008 1:34 pm

there are 2 coils in the regulator. one is for disconnection at idle (do not touch that, not easy) the other is for regulating the charge.
it is easy enough to tweak the spring a little to get more spring tension and so more voltage.
you have to use a digital multimeter on the regulator output spade.
it is ok when accelerating ot reachs 7.0-7.4 volts.
you can also block with fingers the contacts in maximun charge position. if the generator is good it reaches also 9-10 volts. but do this only for few seconds. it can harm the generator/battery. sometimes generators are shot and spring tweaking do not help.

Tue May 06, 2008 1:47 pm

the old timers i used to work with mentioned adjusting the regs,i never have done it,in fact i was told that the 6 volt regs can actually be adjusted to work with a 12 volt generator,i havent done any fartin around with these but an old timer comes thru every few months,i'll try and pick his brain

Tue May 06, 2008 2:39 pm

Here, Check This out:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=264047&highlight=

This is for an 8 volt system, so just don't turn it up as much :shock:

Tue May 06, 2008 3:12 pm

Here are a couple of pages explaining how the voltage regulator operates:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=402340
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=402341

These are from a bay-window era factory workshop manual.

I don't think the points have anything to do with output voltage.

Adjusting the return spring on the regulator relay makes sense to me.

Tue May 06, 2008 4:56 pm

so i went back with the 2000 grit paper on the contacts using some contact cleaner also. gen. light now only comes on at low idle, sometimes, seems to be doing what is was before i cleaned the contacts.
output at speed is now up to 6.75, more than before which is good. i guess i will clean the gen. armature brush contact area and see if that makes a difference.
on the regulator, is the cutout circuit the side with the 2 contacts or the side with the 1 set of contacts? which spring are you guys refering to?
i would really like to see this thing put out 7 volts if possible. i will clean up the brush contact area on the gen. first though.
i was suprised to see that the regulator didn't have an adjustment screw similar to a turn signal relay.

Tue May 06, 2008 5:49 pm

StockNazi wrote: so i went back with the 2000 grit paper on the contacts using some contact cleaner also. gen. light now only comes on at low idle, sometimes, seems to be doing what is was before i cleaned the contacts.
output at speed is now up to 6.75, more than before which is good. i guess i will clean the gen. armature brush contact area and see if that makes a difference.
on the regulator, is the cutout circuit the side with the 2 contacts or the side with the 1 set of contacts? which spring are you guys refering to?
i would really like to see this thing put out 7 volts if possible. i will clean up the brush contact area on the gen. first though.
i was suprised to see that the regulator didn't have an adjustment screw similar to a turn signal relay.

The cut out relay is the one with the single contact in the illustration I posted. The voltage regulating relay has two contacts. The voltage regulating relay is the one you would want to alter the spring on. I'm only guessing there is a spring. I have never opened one up.

Wed May 07, 2008 6:13 am

i am going to guess it's the spring steel strip btw the 2 sets of contacts.
for me, it's fun tinkering with these types of things that most would simply replace if there is a problem with them.

Wed May 14, 2008 9:25 am

Thesamba is full of hidden gems....

Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:09 pm

Old thread but it seemed to be the closest match to something I was researching.

I just tweaked the regulator in my '61 to increase the output voltage from 6v to 7v. Per the page above, I tweaked the post (D) UP to increase output voltage

One issue I am having though is sometimes the light is on at idle.
When it is on, I checked the voltage at connection 61 on the regulator, the place where the wire for the warning light connects, and it is only 4-5v. It increases to 6-7v right above idle, when the regulator starts to kick in and produce more than 6v at the main B+ generator post.

I:
Cleaned the internals of the regulator - sprayed the 2 sets of points with electrical cleaner. I did not file them at all.
Cleaned the generator commutator - it looked shiny already
Made sure the brushes were contacting - they are also fairly new and slide freely in their holders
Tried another used regulator, with the same result.

I'm not sure if this means there is an issue with my regulator? Or generator? There is no charging issue, it's just the light is on at idle sometimes.
I don't want to buy a new regulator for no reason.

My idle is not low either, it's set to about 1000 rpms.
I would like to turn it down lower but then the light is always on at idle as the reading at the 61 connection drops to between 3-4v.

On my other 6v Bus, the reading at post 61 is 6v almost instantly after start-up.

Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:21 pm

Sure you tweaked the right coil? I always play with both while the cover is off to confirm which one is actually voltage as it seems no 2 regulators are set up the same internally. The other question is how much of a tweak?, it usually takes less than .010 to gain a volt+.

Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:25 pm

Yes, on the first regulator I tweaked both spots just in case.
The front coil (toward the front of the Bus) on both regulators is the "cutout" one shown in the diagram above, meaning it only has 1 set of points. It didn't seem to do anything in regards to the voltage output at B+.

After tweaking with the first one I read this thread and the information above a few times more and I got worried I was messing things up by tweaking the cut out coil since I wasn't performing the tests listed above. So I installed a spare regulator I had in my garage and tweaked only the "voltage regulator" coil with dual points, as listed and shown above.

I am not sure how much I moved it upward but yes, it was not much.

Both regulators are Bosch.
The one pictured above is Mexican and that was the one I removed.
The one on my Bus now is German and the internals appear identical.

Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:14 am

everett, about the light at idle: is the single point coil opened or closed while the light is on?
if it is open, try to see if closing it manually clears the problem. the voltage threshold of the single point coil may be too low, causing the generator to be disconnected also while not needed.
the single coil is there only to protect a reverse flow of current from the battery to the generator. if wear set it too high light goes on.
another problem is that old regulators does not give a good contact for the dual points coil. a bad or incostintent contact at idle/low rpm causes a loss of field effect, causing the generator to erogate less.
try to force also the duel contact to see if the problem is that.

you can have a low voltage or bouncing points also with a lightly damaged rotor in the generator. look for strange color in some of the copper contacts of the collector of the rotor.

Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:25 am

It may be normal for the light to come on at idle with a 6V system.
I don't worry about it.

Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:11 am

I agree, but if it's bugging the crap out of you tweak the cutout tab down a hair, if the charge light stays on when you shut it off you tweaked it too much.

Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:08 am

PEPPE wrote: everett, about the light at idle: is the single point coil opened or closed while the light is on?
if it is open, try to see if closing it manually clears the problem. the voltage threshold of the single point coil may be too low, causing the generator to be disconnected also while not needed.
the single coil is there only to protect a reverse flow of current from the battery to the generator. if wear set it too high light goes on.
Open, but I can see it close and the voltage raises if the idle is raised.

PEPPE wrote: another problem is that old regulators does not give a good contact for the dual points coil. a bad or incostintent contact at idle/low rpm causes a loss of field effect, causing the generator to erogate less. try to force also the duel contact to see if the problem is that.
I did try that - this didn't do anything (that I remember).

PEPPE wrote: you can have a low voltage or bouncing points also with a lightly damaged rotor in the generator. look for strange color in some of the copper contacts of the collector of the rotor.
The dual points stay to the left all the time, I never saw them move.