TheSamba.com :: View topic - How much did this sell for? 1953 Barndoor 23 Window Deluxe

Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:06 pm

all of a sudden, does this bus look like it was cheap?
very complete, primer bus, running, driving, some provenance, gersons panels available...

Rusting Hulk wrote: So if it went to Germany when did it get to Canada?

1st post in thread mentions an approximation of this

uberwagen wrote: So technically, the original paint was primer, the next paint was brown beige

my theory on this is that these Primer Buses weren’t actually the bare primer (ie gray) from the factory, but left the factory in that brown beige (or at least parts of the interior were painted in the brown beige)

Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:42 pm

It would be odd if the pictures were of another owner other than Werner.... as there were photos at the auction such as these and that would be the only source that Kendall would picked these up.

Two pictures identified.....

Overlooking lake/cottage..... old Trans Canada Highway near Kenora.... (another photo was seen with the other '53 off a rockcut at auction)

The other overlooking a valley is on the east side of Osoyoos, BC from a hairpin going into the valley on Highway #3.... overlooks the town towards west along US/Cdn border.

Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:11 pm

Forgot to mention..... look for upcoming NEATO story on known history of this Deluxe and other '53...... should appear sometime soon....

Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:31 pm

RockStock wrote: my theory on this is that these Primer Buses weren’t actually the bare primer (ie gray) from the factory, but left the factory in that brown beige (or at least parts of the interior were painted in the brown beige)

I don't know about Barndoors but there is a 57/58 Single Cab in FL that left the factory in primer and the whole interior is Primer.

Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:32 pm

I agree with Rockstocks in regards to the brown/beige being the primer. As far as the original paint goes, I guess there could be some question. My assumption that Werner Damrath was the original owner and bought this bus new in Germany and brought over to Canada came from Kendall, the second owner, who bought it at the estate auction in 2003.

I would really like to get peoples opinions on restoration, paint color, metal work as I don't want to do a full restoration(i.e. show bus).

Thanks for all information. looking forward to hearing some suggestions!

Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:57 pm

too bad the trim got stripped off. that bus was bad ass the way it was.

good luck with it malik. i'm glad to see it's on the east coast. i'd love to see it sometime. maybe for the trailbash at jDOTs?

Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:41 pm

On this particular bus, the brown beige was painted over top of a light grey primer, and it was a high gloss finish just like on my 54. The brown beige was also not limited to the inside of the bus, but was also applied to the whole outside of the bus including under the front window seals, and under the skylight seals.

I think the whole bus was most likely painted brown biege over top of the primer at the factory before its final assembly. What is the likelyhood of someone totally disassembling a "new" bus including removal of the interior, headliner, and all of the windows, just to paint it.

I know the birth certificate says it was delivered in primer, but the fact remains that this bus was painted high gloss L76 brown beige (over top of primer), ...in my opinion, before its final assembly.

(I'll put my pics of this bus back up in the gallery)

Fri Mar 02, 2007 1:29 am

uberwagen wrote: The brown beige was also not limited to the inside of the bus, but was also applied to the whole outside of the bus including under the front window seals, and under the skylight seals

how about brown beige on the inside & all the shutwork
dash, windscreen area, cab, inner cargo doors, inner engine lid, maybe around the window apertures
that would leave you to just decide the external colours without disassembly of the dash components (hence why the dashes seen to stay the brown beige), windows, etc. just mask & go

otherwise why would VW have labelled them as in Primer? They would have called them Brown Beige

uberwagen wrote: What is the likelyhood of someone totally disassembling a "new" bus including removal of the interior, headliner, and all of the windows, just to paint it

yes, brown beige on before headliner. so at factory. as uberwagen says, you can see overspray at the top here:

just like how the deluxes were painted:

this theory would mean this bus looks a little 'incorrect':

Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:17 am

RockStock wrote: how about brown beige on the inside & all the shutwork
dash, windscreen area, cab, inner cargo doors, inner engine lid, maybe around the window apertures
that would leave you to just decide the external colours without disassembly of the dash components (hence why the dashes seen to stay the brown beige), windows, etc. just mask & go

otherwise why would VW have labelled them as in Primer? They would have called them Brown Beige

So what you are proposing is that VW painted the whole interior, dash, around all the windows, doors, deluxe trim in a neutral final paint colour (brown beige) ...so that the customer who ordered the bus in primer would not have to do anything with the interior, or remove the windows...trim... from the exterior
...they would just have to mask the exterior of the bus and paint it the colour of their choosing.

I think you might be right!

It would make perfect sense for VW to do this to provide protection to the areas that would not be disassembled by the customer when painted. Having just primer in the whole interior and in all the nooks an crannies would not be very durable, and would likely rust and wear quite quickly.

That would explain why the brown beige does not seem to extend to far beyond the skylight windows, or beyond the deluxe trim.

Until now I thought that the rest of the brown beige paint on the large surfaces of the bus were sanded off down to primer before the application of the green or red paint.

But if you think about it, it would have been pretty difficult to sand off the brown beige paint with out going through the original primer in at least a couple of spots.

I guess if one were to remove more of the green paint to see what lies underneath, you might be able to tell if any of the large body panels were also brown beige at one time.

Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:12 am

yes, absolutely, that would be my theory (& i think your pics currently back it up)
would be great to have a couple of factory colour pics of one of these early Primer Deluxes, just off the assembly line...

malik wrote: I would really like to get peoples opinions on restoration, paint color

makes this one interesting!
for this bus, i guess maintain as much of the paint as is whilst fixing the metalwork issues (& blowing these areas in)
most of the bodywork looks confined to the floor?

for another Primer Bus, perhaps one which needs a full restoration, what paint combo would be the best route??

Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:29 am

Very Cool Photos Mark!!!

I love the photo with the owner.....all smiles!!!

he loved that bus till the very end!!

I hope once you get it back into shape you enjoy it as he did in the past!!

Thanks for sharing the photos!!! :D

Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:26 pm

UZI wrote: too bad the trim got stripped off

a pal has seen a vintage photo of a deluxe with the same/similar trim on it
so a period aftermarkert accessory?
malik, do you still have them?

Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:36 pm

now that would be wicked if it is the same bus !!!!

Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:30 pm

Just thought I'd post the birth certificate and registration card from 1974.

Does anyone have any suggestions on the restoration?

thanks

Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:03 pm

malik wrote: Just thought I'd post the birth certificate and registration card from 1974.

Does anyone have any suggestions on the restoration?

thanks
I would recommend making it just like it looks in those old photos. (truly restoring it to how it was originally used) there are so many brown and red barndoor deluxes out there that they are getting kind of boring. something like this bus is interesting looking. I love the swoopy side trim.

Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:49 pm

Quote: a pal has seen a vintage photo of a deluxe with the same/similar trim on it
so a period aftermarkert accessory?

Is that the pic of a BD Deluxe with the emblem removed and horizontal chrome strips on the nose, custom front roof skylights and other refinements..... :?:

Fri Mar 02, 2007 10:56 pm

RockStock wrote: UZI wrote: too bad the trim got stripped off

a pal has seen a vintage photo of a deluxe with the same/similar trim on it
so a period aftermarkert accessory?
malik, do you still have them? It was me who stripped off that trim! Trust me, it was not a "period aftermarket accessory". It was the wood craftsmanship skills of the origional owner and it had turned to sh#t sitting out in the elements! It was half rotten and needed to come off and go into the garbage! Werner Damrath was a very talented craftsman (as seen in other works of VW art of his) and I believe this was his work. As far as if he was the origional owner from the factory, there is no reason to believe that he wasn't however there is no hard proof. He is also dead with no living relitaves so there is nobody to ask.

Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:27 pm

EverettB wrote: RockStock wrote: my theory on this is that these Primer Buses weren’t actually the bare primer (ie gray) from the factory, but left the factory in that brown beige (or at least parts of the interior were painted in the brown beige) I don't know about Barndoors but there is a 57/58 Single Cab in FL that left the factory in primer and the whole interior is Primer.
the primer delivered westfalias and binz doublecabs have grey primer under where the radio blockoff and ashtray are on the dash. those items were not removed before the dash was painted.

uberwagen wrote: malik wrote: ...Since there was speculation on whether this bus came from the factory in primer this answers the question. Also, the paint job that was on the bus was the original paint which I now have pictures of the original owner on vacation in the bus. First of all, those pictures are fantastic!
I was just thinking last night that I should send you a pm to ask if you had sent for a birth certificate. I guess you were one step ahead of me.

As far as the paint is concerned, I think we both know that the whole bus was brown biege before it was green!

So technically, the original paint was primer, the next paint was brown beige, and probably soon after the bus was painted two tone green. Not to mention some patches of bright red here and there that I could not figure out. Two say that the green was the original paint job is a bit of a stretch.

In fact, to say that the guy in the picture (Werner), was the original owner of this bus is also speculation. ...Unless you have proof of that also?

Sorry about all the nay-saying. I'm just bitter that I didn't buy it when I had the chance :(
perhaps it was delivered in primer, painted brown beige, and the red parts were part of some logos for the original owners company in Germany. then Werner got it and did the green/green thing.

it looks damn cool in the green/green.

that roofrack is ugly as hell though.

Sat Mar 03, 2007 4:11 am

kendalwpg wrote: it was not a "period aftermarket accessory". It was the wood craftsmanship skills of the origional owner

that swoopy trim looks ally to me. similar to the beltline trim
did it have wood in the space below?

(& what's that loop in the drivers window?)

kintail wrote: Quote: a pal has seen a vintage photo of a deluxe with the same/similar trim on it
so a period aftermarkert accessory?

Is that the pic of a BD Deluxe with the emblem removed and horizontal chrome strips on the nose, custom front roof skylights and other refinements..... :?:
the vintage pic i mentioned was seen at an auto show in germany. not sure of any other detail
here's the one you're referring to

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=325380

Lind wrote: part of some logos for the original owners company
yes, as a primer bus, you would think there was a high chance it would be a logo bus

interesting to read the Whine thread, when this bus was discussed when it came up for sale by Kendal in 06 for $35k
starts on p105 (arthurnugen's post), & rumbles on for the next few pages
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1...start=2080
so just speculating here (but its interesting): bought in 03 at auction for $3.5k, advertised on thesamba in 06 for $35k, sold in 06 for $27k

Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:56 am

With all due respect you weren't there........ the "important prices" you quote are wrong.... and once again are rumour...

Really killing eveybody to get the price facts down isn't it..... and for what purpose :?: