TheSamba.com :: View topic

Sun Feb 15, 2004 8:46 pm

If your 4,5 is a beeyotch to start hot, I'd start with a check valve! You can put a fuel pressure gage on your system to see how quickly your pressure bleeds off, and to what extent. Mercedes V8s with CIS and mechanical injection always suffered from this problem. Even my old 1969 300SEL 6,3 had a "factory fix" that would run the cold start valve off of a timed relay for five or six seconds EVEN with the engine hot to overcome hot start issues. Try cycling your key off and on several times without starting the engine before you turn the key to engage the starter. Also, check your CIS temp sensor to make sure it's in range.
Bobnotch, the 72- 73 system on the Type 3 IS better.
As to the contributors with wiring harness issues, the harness is NOT as difficult to replace as you might think. It's pretty straightforward, and that harness looks a LOT less intimidating out of the car! Bentley shows a pretty good view of the harness and what all goes where. Doing a FI harness is a lot like riding a bike first time- It's intimidating as hell until you DO it.

Sun Feb 15, 2004 10:50 pm

Hey Tram, great thread. Thanks for sharing the wealth. I love my FI. However there is an issue after distance driving. The car will stall at stop signs or in stop and go traffic. The idle speed drops and the oil light begins to flicker, quite often the car will stall. Then I have a hard time getting her to start again. I have to floor the gas pedal to get her to start again. I have gotten very good as using the hand break, keeping the clutch in and the idle speed up. Any ideas?
Thanks again for this thread. Great information :D

Sun Feb 15, 2004 11:21 pm

What Annie...You can't press all three pedals at the same time....I can keep the clutch in , rev the engine and pump my brakes at the same time....usually scares the crap out of girls i take out on dates

Mon Feb 16, 2004 12:28 am

Hi Annie- If you get a great puff of black smoke when you get her started after she stalls, that indicates rich and your most likely suspect is the cylinder head temp sensor (also called Temp sensor II in Bentley). Other suspects are air mass metre full of oil or out of specs and point gap too close. Let me know if any of these scientific wild ass guesses pan out. :shock:

Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:46 pm

Bobnotch:

I believe you are correct . . . its at least easier to find some replacement items for the later FI systems, and I've heard they are more stable. I've managed to find a questionably complete '73 FI system. . . so that brings me to something else.

BerT3

I just might have a use for your '73 wiring harness. I'll know for sure in about two days.

Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:41 pm

TheWolfManNat wrote: What Annie...You can't press all three pedals at the same time....I can keep the clutch in , rev the engine and pump my brakes at the same time....usually scares the crap out of girls i take out on dates
My nieces would not try to drive my car this weekend, because of the 3 pedal technique. They were amazed at the skill required to drive my little car.
Tram, no black smoke, points just done, where would I locate the temp sensor?
thanks
Annie

Tue Feb 17, 2004 10:17 pm

Hi Annie
Temp sensor should be near #3 plug on top. Early FIs (68-70) had it near #4 on the BOTTOM of the head. It'll be a screw plug with a single wire coming out of it.

Wed Feb 18, 2004 12:35 pm

Hey guys,
I have TONS of early FI parts,brains,harnesses fuel pumps...you name it I have it.I am in the process of tracking part numbers and labeling whats what.I have decided to step away from the t-3 thing and stick with my buses,they just make me smile when I drive them.Anway Im going to be putting alot of stuff up for sale.I even have a Bosche diagnostic machine for the t-3 that will be going also.I ended up with all this stuff from an old mechanic whom I baught my 68 and 69 squares from and its amazing how many people were giving up on FI back in the 70/80's,theres tons of paper work that I have found in the boxes for converting to webers etc.I actually have been blessed and havent had any issues myself.

Thu Feb 19, 2004 2:05 am

So Email me with a price for the diagnostic machine! Mine has been used so often that I have to smack it to make it light up, kinda like Fonzie's jukebox, if you remember THAT. I can diag fine without it, but it's a REAL timesaver.

Thu Feb 19, 2004 8:06 am

Annie, check the voltage at the battery with a voltmeter. What you're looking for is 14.1 to 14.5 volts at medium rpms. If less than 14 replace the voltage regulator with genuine Bosch #30-019. The D-jet is voltage sensitive, and will run rich if it has low voltage. Just some food for thought since you were having issues with one of your generator brushes.

Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:21 pm

Alright, it has been awhile since I have been on this forum and my girl, 71 t3 square, has been sitting in my driveway just as long. I hope Old School can help.. If I cant get my fi working I will pull it out.. If my car ain't runnin it is no good to me. Here is the story.

She was running fine for about two months. When I got the car it wasn't runnin worth a darn. I got new plugs, wires, points, condinser, and cap but she still wasn't running right. after me and a bud looked it over we took a look at the trigger points. One side looked ok, the other dirty and rusted, we cleaned um up and what do you know. She was runnin good for the first time. Since that time all was good until one night on the town she just quit at a light. Luckily I got it started and ran it to a parking lot where it quit again and would not start!

Ok, thinking that most of the time problems are somewhere in the ignition, I checked it all.. No problems! Anyway, after some tinkering and replacing the rotor, she finaly started. It was idiling fine drove to the gas station, left it running while I went in to pay.. After fueling up I decided to give a bit of a road test and instead of turning to go home I drove down the street were she quit again in the same way, no warning! I tried several times to tune, start her to no avail.

After a couple weeks, I tried starting her again and she sputtered a bit but started and idiled fine for about 5 minutes, then died........................

I am thinkin it is the throttle valve switch. It is getting gas..

any ideas?

Wed Mar 03, 2004 11:34 pm

Hungus-
Do you get any other symptoms as she "just quits"? A "rattlesnake" type noise from under the dash, for example?
What you're describing sounds like a loose or bad connection. Some places to look would be at the starter, under the rear seat at and all around the battery, voltage regulator, and ALL of the connectors/ grounds on the engine. Years ago, we had a Type 3 (a '69 as I recall) that would quit every time the owner hit a certain bump in the road on Exchange Street not too far from the dealer in Akron. She had it towed in at least a dozen times. Of course, once off the tow truck, it would start and run all day long. I think everything had been done from trigger points to control unit to no avail. The last time it got towed in, I was the "lucky" guy who got it. I found a loose battery ground cable- it was loose at the bolt on the BODY. Cleaned and tightened it and that was the end of the problem.
My grandmother had a brand new '73 Automatic that would quit like that, but with a noise from the dash area that she said sounded like a "rattler". That was, of course, a faulty fuel pump relay. Her dealer replaced it under warranty and I don't think she had another problem with that car until the floors rusted out of it around about 1982.
It doesn't sound like your problem is serious, just annoying. Hopefully you have a Bentley. Like I said, go thru the wiring in those areas and make sure everything's clean and tight. Check the connector on the fuel pump down in front, too. Replace the condenser if you haven't already. Keep us posted.

Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:03 am

i just recently purchased my squareback, and am new to the fuel injection system. the guy i bought it off of said it needed a fuel pump. he gave me the old pump which was seized and flatbedded the car to my house. well, after tinkering with the pump, opening it up, cleaning it, and getting it to spin again, i hooked everything back up and my car still wont run. it turns over, and the fuel pump spins, but it wont run. any help would be GREATLY appreciated<sp>. thanks will

Thu Mar 04, 2004 5:54 pm

It does have a new condinser and I am fairly certain all connections are good.. It was one of the first things I checked. Also, it will stop running even if it hasn't went anywhere.. To me it seems like once it reaches a certain temp that is when it quits and there is no indication it is going to quit. Just dies alot like maybe if it was out of gas..

Thu Mar 04, 2004 10:07 pm

Does anyone sell FI components for '68-69 T-3s? The buyer of my fasty hates FI, but I've never had a real problem with it (other than the car is all around slow going uphill). It's got a worn driver's side intake manifold, and the attempts to replace the bolts that hold it in only break the bolts.

Option B: what would it take to convert a '69 FI setup to a '72 FI setup?

Quote: Aside from the few things that need to be done mechanically, the one that is bothering me and my husband the most is the fact of how funky the car sounds when starting up in the morning. Although it will turn over just fine the idle sounds like it wants to [and sometimes will] cut-off if you do not sit there with your foot on the gas pedal; it usually warms up in about 1-2 minutes with no further problems.
I test drove a carb'd '69 auto with the same problem. It did die without help from the gas pedal. It's problem was that the carbs needed to be rejetted. Do you suppose your FI has a similar problem?

Sun Mar 28, 2004 10:21 am

ok guys, finaly a nice day to work on the squareback.. I did the test on page 25 of the Fuel system chapter and, Fuel is getting to the injectors and it also passed the drop test as described in the following paragraph. Ok, so now what? It isn't starting at all now.

The injectors seem to really be putting out a lot of fuel, like a stream not a mist. I have set the fuel regulator as far closed as it will go so I am stuck. I have another one in the basement to switch it out, but I wanted the opion of the forum first..

Thanks
Scott

Mon Mar 29, 2004 6:38 pm

im back. i now have fuel running to the injectors, and as the above post states i too am getting little streams, not a mist of gasoline. ive checked everything that the control unit has to check and its all been good, so im hoping its just something with the injectors....clogged or worn? any help would be wonderful

Tue Mar 30, 2004 3:17 pm

I need help in the worst way. I just finished a restoration on my 71' squareback after a year and a half and now I have Fuel Injection problems. This car was my driver for two years and 30k trouble free miles until I dropped an exhaust valve seat. After pulling the heads off I decided to do a complete rebuild to help with a low oil pressure problem. Of course that led to a complete cosmetic restoration as well. I'm going a little off course but I have the car sold and a very patient person waiting for me to finish the car. The motor recived new heads, new P&C's, line bored case, new bearings, ect... I did reuse all the F.I. parts and sensors as is because the car ran so well. As soon as I fired the car up it idled well but was really putting out black smoke even at idle. It looks like almost like an old Mercedes diesel under heavy acceleration. It has also fouled the plugs and covered them with pitch black soot. I replaced the plugs and within 3 or 4 minutes of running (no kidding) I pulled the plugs and they were black as could be. I've had the car running for about an hour total and it's putting out a lot of black smoke. If I pull the plug wires or the injector wires off the driver side head (3 & 4) there is a noticeable difference on how it runs. If I do the same on the passenger side (1&2) the motor barely changes. I checked and I have spark to 1&2. I drove it down the street and it has decent power between the sputtering but the longer it runs the worse it runs probably from the fouled plugs. Also I didn't anticipate having it apart as long as I have but I think I have the wires hooked up correctly. Also the gas is a year and half old if that will make a difference. I did put new injector seals and new plastic blocks between the head and intake manifold. I didn't put any other intake gaskets with it because the head studs aren't long enough to accept any. I did hand file the ends of the intake manifold to ensure they are flat and true. Also the new heads had the port for head temp sensor drilled and tapped in the correct location. I need help finding out why it is running so rich. Like a lot of others, I'm by no means an expert at this but with some help I'm hoping to figure this out fairly quickly.

Thanks...
Vache

Mon Jul 11, 2005 6:54 am

resurrecting an old thread here:

looking for other culprits for making my '72 run rich....

I already know I need to check/replace the line that runs from the MPC to the intake manifold...

anything else that would make the FI run rich?

thanks guys....

Mon Jul 11, 2005 9:18 am

blankmange wrote: resurrecting an old thread here:

looking for other culprits for making my '72 run rich....

I already know I need to check/replace the line that runs from the MPC to the intake manifold...

anything else that would make the FI run rich?

thanks guys....

Do the vac line first. Make sure your basic settings are correct, then check the resistance on the cylinder head temp sensor. we'll go from there.

I thought this thread was long dead. What a golden oldie! :lol: