TheSamba.com :: View topic - Aircooled Technology

Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:27 am

Called the Tech guys to purchase so parts today from Aircoooled Tech. First time caller to this Vendor and inquired about using there rocker arm shaft and shim kit for a Hydraulic 79 2.0 westy. These guys been doing this engine rebuild for many years plus the parts gig as well yet they could not tell me if I could use these parts in a Hydraulic motor. No feedback at all. I expected more from these guys as they are suppose to be the best. After all the charge higher than gold prices for there engines. I would have gladly bought an engine from these guys but after just one phone call I can tell that they are way to good for there britches...Bid head sydrome or something. Am currently working on full restoration of a Westy my 3rd bus and Im a bit green still but just about all the vendors I deal with shoot staight and have feedback. Raby's team answer nope we dont build Hydraulic engines so we dont know. Like know one they no never tried there product in one, COME ON GUYs. Lame answer and support. If its to good to be true it usually is. Feel like I was on a Segway commercial hipe till the call i made brought me back to reality. Thanks for saving me 10k plus Rabys team.....

Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:08 am

Quote: Called the Tech guys to purchase so parts today from Aircoooled Tech. First time caller to this Vendor and inquired about using there rocker arm shaft and shim kit for a Hydraulic 79 2.0 westy
Sir,
I was in my office a mere 15' away from Dean when he answered your call. Dean then asked ME directly about using the product that you had enquired about with hydraulic lifters and I directed his reply, which he stated to you verbatim. Based on your actions here on thesamba its probably a really good thing that you didn't speak directly with me~

Quote: These guys been doing this engine rebuild for many years plus the parts gig as well yet they could not tell me if I could use these parts in a Hydraulic motor.
Big difference.. What we told you was we had ZERO DATA for these components being used in a hydraulic engine as we did not develop them for the application and have done zero testing with them. This is because we have not assembled a single hydraulic engine since 1995.

Rather than simply telling you things that you might want to hear; we told you the truth. It would have been easier to reassure you that they would work, then take your dollar- but thats not honest because we ONLY sell products that we have developed and use in our engines. We do not create engines with hydraulic valvetrains.

Quote: No feedback at all.

Because there was nothing to feedback. We don;'t use those components, have not done any of that testing and we know better than assume anything in engine building.

Quote: I expected more from these guys as they are suppose to be the best.

We are. We are good enough not to sell you something for an application that we have not experienced for roughly 17 years. When I did create hydraulic engines all I used was the stock arrangement, so we never used the solid spacers with those builds.

Quote: After all the charge higher than gold prices for there engines.
We do accept Gold and Silver for payment for our engines.

Quote: I would have gladly bought an engine from these guys but after just one phone call I can tell that they are way to good for there britches...Bid head sydrome or something.
No. We simply told you the facts in a very clear and concise manner. If you desire a hydraulic engine that engine would not have been provided by us.

You are disappointed that we just didn't tell you what you wanted to hear.

Quote: Am currently working on full restoration of a Westy my 3rd bus and Im a bit green still but just about all the vendors I deal with shoot staight and have feedback.

We shoot straight, so straight that some people can't handle it. We answered your question directly and did so in a professional, tactful manner. Unfortunately we could not answer your question with any degree of accuracy. We were honest enough to tell you this.

Quote: Raby's team answer nope we dont build Hydraulic engines so we dont know.
Thats right. What part of that didn't you understand about that?

Quote: Like know one they no never tried there product in one, COME ON GUYs.
Like you were during the phone conversation, it is irrelevent if anyone else that we have sold those components to have used them in a hydraulic engine. We can't sell you components with unknown application effectiveness based on assumption that somewhere, someone in the world has used these components for a similar application. We have not.

Quote: Lame answer and support.
Direct answers and realistic support with no sugar coating, unicorns or rainbows.

Quote: If its to good to be true it usually is. Feel like I was on a Segway commercial hipe till the call i made brought me back to reality .
Welcome back to the real world.

Quote: Thanks for saving me 10k plus Rabys team.....
No, the thanks go to you.. You saved us a lot of potential future issues when you buy a 10-12,000.00 engine and have a 50,000.00 expectation for it, then come back here on thesamba with disappointment.

Everything happens for reason, so all involved should not be disappointed that this ocurred; we should be very happy because it looks like we all dodged a bullet with a simple phone call.

It is really simple and clear:
We only can provide support for our components in the applications that we have supplied them for and have utilized extensively in the past to create our engines. You asked about something that we have never done, with an engine that we haven't worked with since 1995. We replied with honesty, professionalism and tact.

So, lets just agree to disagree and go on about our business. I appreciate your enquiry and apologize for not being able to provide you with a component proven to be compatible with your application.

Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:19 am

curtis4085 wrote: Called the Tech guys to purchase so parts today from Aircoooled Tech. First time caller to this Vendor and inquired about using there rocker arm shaft and shim kit for a Hydraulic 79 2.0 westy. These guys been doing this engine rebuild for many years plus the parts gig as well yet they could not tell me if I could use these parts in a Hydraulic motor. No feedback at all. I expected more from these guys as they are suppose to be the best. After all the charge higher than gold prices for there engines. I would have gladly bought an engine from these guys but after just one phone call I can tell that they are way to good for there britches...Bid head sydrome or something. Am currently working on full restoration of a Westy my 3rd bus and Im a bit green still but just about all the vendors I deal with shoot staight and have feedback. Raby's team answer nope we dont build Hydraulic engines so we dont know. Like know one they no never tried there product in one, COME ON GUYs. Lame answer and support. If its to good to be true it usually is. Feel like I was on a Segway commercial hipe till the call i made brought me back to reality. Thanks for saving me 10k plus Rabys team.....

So, what then is your point?

They told you they can't help you because you are trying to buy parts for, and therefore expect support for a hydraulic lifter motor that they do not build nor want to have any part of. You were looking for something that you couldn't find from them, so your elevated expectations came crashing down. They don't support hydraulic engines. You didn't get it.

Based on your reaction to their dealing with you, I am sure that Jake is probably glad that you are not buying anything off him. I am not a Jake fanboy, but I know what he is like, because I am a lot like him.

As far as losing 10k of your money...I am sure you would be worth more that 50k of hassle after the fact. You said it yourself...you are a bit green. Then you said that these guys were supposed to be the best. Well, if that's the case, then why didn't you listen? They don't build hydraulic motors so they don't know! You interpreted that as a bunch of arrogant guys who couldn't help you?
They probably saved you from making a 10k mistake yourself.

Some people should not be allowed to have access to a keyboard.

edit:...jake got his response in before me , lol

Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:20 am

Since Jake responded I won't remove your feedback as it does not match our feedback rules.

Sounds like Jake covered it here:
Quote: We only can provide support for our components in the applications that we have supplied them for and have utilized extensively in the past to create our engines. You asked about something that we have never done, with an engine that we haven't worked with since 1995.

To put it as nicely as possible, my suggestion would be to retract your feedback, it does not reflect well on you.

Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:21 am

Curtis,

As the guy who answered your inquiry this morning, I concur with Mr. Raby 100%!

Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:22 am

my only suggestion as one staight shooting business person to another. Maybe you should post the specifics of your parts for there application so there is no confusion on the buyers part. If your guy said I would be better off with stock VW parts in my app thats one thing. You must know personally from some feed back that your rocker shaft could fit but best use the real deal VW one because of strenght of steel for application. It was a nice dance and getting to the truth is painful and hard sometimes. Im sure you guys do quality work as i have heard many great things but to shoot staight you should advertise staight too. If I had been armed with proper tech information on your website about said part i would not even had to make a phone call and the dance would have never started.

And im glad you can make light of getting to the truth of your products by saying you some how are dodging a bullet by not dealing with me just shows your class... :(

Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:25 am

curtis4085 wrote: my only suggestion as one staight shooting business person to another. Maybe you should post the specifics of your parts for there application so there is no confusion on the buyers part. If your guy said I would be better off with stock VW parts in my app thats one thing. You must know personally from some feed back that your rocker shaft could fit but best use the real deal VW one because of strenght of steel for application. It was a nice dance and getting to the truth is painful and hard sometimes. Im sure you guys do quality work as i have heard many great things but to shoot staight you should advertise staight too. If I had been armed with proper tech information on your website about said part i would not even had to make a phone call and the dance would have never started.

And im glad you can make light of getting to the truth of your products by saying you some how are dodging a bullet by not dealing with me just shows your class... :(

Wow...you just don't get it, do you?

Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:44 am

Quote: my only suggestion as one staight shooting business person to another. Maybe you should post the specifics of your parts for there application so there is no confusion on the buyers part.
I agree and I will do that today, thank you for the suggestion. Perhaps when someone can't find a single hydraulic component on our site they understand that we do not support those engines? I will remove any assumption in just a few minutes.

The term "straight shooter" has multiple definitions.

Quote: If your guy said I would be better off with stock VW parts in my app thats one thing.
No, thats a recommendation and we do not make those here. We haven't built an engine with hydraulic valvetrain in so long that nothing is the same as most of the stock parts that worked for us back then are now worn out. Nothing ever stays the same.

Quote: You must know personally from some feed back that your rocker shaft could fit but best use the real deal VW one because of strenght of steel for application.

No, we don't know because we have learned to believe nothing of what we hear and only half of what we see. Unless **I** have done it successfully it is totally irrelevent. All components are guilty until proven innocent under the roof of my facility and in a car piloted by yours truly.
The stock VW arrangement wasn't solid for the hydraulic engines for a reason, and we don't want you to find out that that reason was when using **our** parts. When that reason is found you will certainly come back here and say "Raby's parts broke my engine". We will avoid that at all costs.

Quote: It was a nice dance and getting to the truth is painful and hard sometimes. Im sure you guys do quality work as i have heard many great things but to shoot staight you should advertise staight too.
The truth is hard. Always has been and always will be. Perhaps next time you will appreciate someone telling you the straight up honest facts and basically turning down your dollar because they can't honestly sell you the item and KNOW that it will work without compromise.

Quote: If I had been armed with proper tech information on your website about said part i would not even had to make a phone call and the dance would have never started.
I could not agree more. I will rectify that issue by removing this offering from our line up, completely.

Quote: And im glad you can make light of getting to the truth of your products by saying you some how are dodging a bullet by not dealing with me just shows your class
Yet again its just the truth. If you get upset over hearing the truth and go out of your way to post this hooplah about a product that cost less than 20 bucks; not enough money exists on this planet for you to buy an engine from my company. I doubt you would have made it through the consulting processes anyway, I would have certainly pissed you off with the direct nature of my formal proposal.

This is best case scenario, you have not become our customer and you now have the facts about our product. Have a wonderful weekend![/quote]

Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:34 am

Quote: No, the thanks go to you.. You saved us a lot of potential future issues when you buy a 10-12,000.00 engine and have a 50,000.00 expectation for it, then come back here on thesamba with disappointment

this is part of why i posted my review of experience with Mr Raby's company. Some class to bash a potetial customer. Just more attitude. No truth. If Your website was staight and your guy was staight i would have never posted anything. Funny how a customer who posted honesty feedback on one of the supposed greats can get ganged up on. Whats wrong with this picture. I have had handful of companies and I must say Mr. Raby cannot take any feedback. You commet on anything its we told you the truth and fine I will pick up my toys and play else where. If your that kinda vendor then go play. You may be good but your not right.....

ANd im very sorry Everette as i do not want this to reflect negativly on my character and feel it shouldnt in anyway. Its my experience with a vendor and just by his and companies response the gang up factor is large. All this for reviewing the experience i had with his company. Something really wrong with this picture. I would not be so fumed if they were staight they were not and I expressed that here in the proper forum. my bad..

Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:41 am

Maybe it's time to move on....

Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:52 am

Quote: Yet again its just the truth. If you get upset over hearing the truth and go out of your way to post this hooplah about a product that cost less than 20 bucks; not enough money exists on this planet for you to buy an engine from my company. I doubt you would have made it through the consulting processes anyway, I would have certainly pissed you off with the direct nature of my formal proposal

I did not get staight answer thats why i posted the review. found it to be fishy advice coming from the king of engines.

And there your truth is showing again by saying im going out of my way to make hoopla over $20 product. Weather your selling a $20 product or a $1million dollar product customer feedback is everything and vendor response is the true measure of your metal. I think your metal is mighty thin. If you said dont not use for hydrualic app as we do not recommend thats one thing. Your guy left it as stated on your website. Vegue language.

so get upset throw a tantrum call me a problem, im just offering feedback. but to you its hoopla and nothing over $20 dollar part. To me its the priciple of the matter and the fact other with hydro engine could be dooped into buying these parts. Yet its on the customer to know out of thin air without asking, that Jakes parts are only for solid lifters.

Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:53 am

Glenn wrote: Maybe it's time to move on....

im moving... thanks Glenn. :D

Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:55 am

Quote: this is part of why i posted my review of experience with Mr Raby's company. Some class to bash a potetial customer. Just more attitude. No truth. If Your website was staight and your guy was staight i would have never posted anything.

No, some class it takes to be told the truth, then go whine to someone to have a closed thread opened up so you can whine some more about being told the truth!

Quote: Funny how a customer who posted honesty feedback on one of the supposed greats can get ganged up on.
So, now its a "Gang Bang". Awesome. I apologize for having loyal followers or those who see things from my viewpoint. I am sorry that the only person who has posted in this thread so far from your viewpoint has been you.

Quote: Whats wrong with this picture. I have had handful of companies and I must say Mr. Raby cannot take any feedback.
Its irrelevent how many companies that you own. I own four myself which is also irrelevent.

I DID ACCEPT your feedback. You stated that my website was deficient and did not explain anything to you about the solid rocker arm spacers being applicable to the hydraulic application.

Quote: You commet on anything its we told you the truth and fine I will pick up my toys and play else where. If your that kinda vendor then go play. You may be good but your not right.....
Ok, so why keep dragging this on and on and just digging a deeper hole for yourself? No one is right here; thats why we are agreeing to disagree, right?

Quote: ANd im very sorry Everette as i do not want this to reflect negativly on my character and feel it shouldnt in anyway. Its my experience with a vendor and just by his and companies response the gang up factor is large.
More about "Gang Banging"... Not only is it impossible for you to accept the truth, you also can't see that you are the only person that has reponded to this thread that thinks you are correct.

Quote: All this for reviewing the experience i had with his company.
A review from one very clouded viewpoint and level of perception. There are always two sides to every story and had I not been quick to respond others would have received a negative perception about my company based on your side of the story only.

Quote: Something really wrong with this picture.

So... now I guess that this has become some sort of conspiracy? Epic!
What is wrong with this picture is the fact that you ever posted your inaccurate review in the first place.

Quote: I would not be so fumed if they were staight they were not and I expressed that here in the proper forum. my bad..

What in the world are you talking about? How much straighter can we be other than telling you that we have no idea about our product in your application?

I believe that you would have been happier if we would have just lied to you, told you what you wanted to hear and have taken your money.

Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:57 am

BTW-I was writing my response when the opposing party was writing their response to "move on". I am not trying to make this worse by continuing to post.

I agree, lets move on.

Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:13 pm

Quote: No, some class it takes to be told the truth, then go whine to someone to have a closed thread opened up so you can whine some more about being told the truth!

now its im whining.. real class or as posted on another thread about you.,lack there of.

Quote: So, now its a "Gang Bang". Awesome. I apologize for having loyal followers or those who see things from my viewpoint. I am sorry that the only person who has posted in this thread so far from your viewpoint has been you.
loyal followers who the one reponder between you and your guy. please. I have followers to. do i need them to respond here directly for you to stop being so attacking for me giving a review of my experience. Its this very bashing that shows your character and what also should be expossed about you and dealing with your company. I express concern about your product and how its discribed on your site and your childish response is to say I will just pull the item. Its this attitude that you have and teach to your guys that came right threw the phone. Your guys never said your product is not applicable to my needs never once, just kept saying we dont build hydraulic engines and havent for many years. And do you really think for one second Jake that some could believe in all your years in business making and selliing these products you never heard feedback on someone using this part in hydraulic engine. My thoughts are your guy was vegue and your website is vegue on product specs so you can drive more sales by capturing the hydro market and turn around and say buyer should know i dont make parts for hydro rebuild. Lets just leave at at this. You have your way of doing things and I posted a review expressing that i felt it was improper way of doing business and I expected more. We agree to disagree on this and how your customer approach is less than graceful.

Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:15 pm

Moving on?

Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:18 pm

Jake Raby wrote: Moving on?
Yes we are... a one day cooling off period.

Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:15 am

Cooling off period over? Good. My turn.

In late 2002, I first heard about German Look. The idea appealed to me. Back then, there was a lot of controversy between a Type IV and a Type I engine. I'm sure disagreements still exist, but back then it was quite different.

I was intrigued by the varying opinions floating around. I went to the shop where I had been taking my VW's since 1988 and got their feedback. I also got feedback from other enthusiasts whose knowledge base was larger than mine. I challenged Jake about differing opinions on the Type IV engine on different sites. I guess I was always respectful because I always got answers. Straight answers. Usually with data backing it up.

In 2004, I bought my Super Beetle. In 2006, I bought a 2056cc Type IV engine for it. I bought it used from someone on the Shop Talk Forums--not from Jake. It did have an Oregon Performance DTM--the precursor for Jake's versions.

Jake gave me advice along the way. He helped me the one time I met him at a show near his neck of the woods. He has helped me since--including my quest for my next project. I am also a welcome party at his Web site.

The only thing I ever actually purchased from Jake was the transaxle that went into my 1302 when I got the used Type IV.

When I read the actual nuts and bolts of "curtis4085" interspersed throughout the belly-aching, I'm thinking this is just another reason why I still want to purchase products for my next project from Jake.

curtis4085 wrote: loyal followers who the one reponder between you and your guy. please. I have followers to. do i need them to respond here directly for you to stop being so attacking for me giving a review of my experience.
Let's be clear. Jake doesn't have me responding here. He certainly doesn't need me. I am here on my own because I want to be here.

curtis4085 wrote: Its this very bashing ...
Umm, you were the one bashing, numb nuts. It's called responding.

curtis4085 wrote: I express concern about your product and how its discribed on your site and your childish response is to say I will just pull the item. Its this attitude that you have and teach to your guys that came right threw the phone. Your guys never said your product is not applicable to my needs never once, just kept saying we dont build hydraulic engines and havent for many years.
I don't know what was said between you and whoever you talked to on the phone. I wasn't there. But I've dealt with Jake since 2002 as stated above. Jake has a strong personality. Childish? I have never witnessed that personally or on the sidelines. Therefore, I don't believe you.

Your own last sentence in the quote above speaks volumes. The first part of that sentence--"Your guys never said your product is not applicable to my needs never once"--seems okay to me. Maybe the product is applicable. Maybe, it's not. If that was what was stated, you should be happy. I have purchased things that were supposed to be applicable, but it wasn't true. You were steered away from (maybe) making a bad purchase. This is bad?

The second part which seems to be in actual agreement--"just kept saying we dont build hydraulic engines and havent for many years"--is telling you he has no actual data to make the assessment you want made. So your complaint is Jake doesn't know everything, and is willing to admit it?

curtis4085 wrote: And do you really think for one second Jake that some could believe in all your years in business making and selliing these products you never heard feedback on someone using this part in hydraulic engine.
Okay, let's pretend Jake's product--the one not intended for a hydraulic engine, the one Jake wouldn't sell for use in a hydraulic engine--still found its way into a hydraulic engine. Or two hydraulic engines. Or ten. And let's pretend Jake had heard about all of them.

Knowing Jake as I do since 2002, if there were failures, he (or whoever you talked to) would have said so. You would have had your answer--it doesn't work.

Therefore in trying to pretend your scenario you find hard to believe otherwise was actually true, the logical remaining conclusion is that it did work. Now why would anyone knowingly have a product for sale that has worked in a particular application not testify to its usefulness in that application?

It's called anecdotal evidence. Even if ten people were successful, Jake wouldn't know any of the other details in why it was successful, what else was used to make it successful, or even how success itself was defined. Even with all of these if's, he would not be in position to make a recommendation on how it could be used.

Personally, I think for much more than one second he hasn't heard of anyone using whatever product in a hydaulic engine. Simply because that is what he said. And otherwise makes no possible sense.

curtis4085 wrote: My thoughts are your guy was vegue and your website is vegue ...
Not knowing is not being vague. Not knowing is a very specific answer. The haziness that remains within you about the product's hydraulic application or lack thereof is still there, but that doesn't reflect on the answer reportedly given.

curtis4085 wrote: ... so you can drive more sales by capturing the hydro market and ...
Uh oh. So this is the type of businessman you are? Sales of sales sake? I don't know anything about the businesses in your siggy, but I will be sure to steer very clear of them.

I'll take a leader in an industry with balls to admit he doesn't know when he doesn't know over someone patting me on the back while reaching into my pocket any day of the week.

Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:59 am

Maybe I should have posted my experience with Jake Raby and Aircooled Technologies in this thread instead of in the Bay window forum. Here it is: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=301614&highlight=raby

Matt, I believe you are 100 % wrong. Your asking about a part's application in a motor they have no experience with is akin to someone asking a medical doctor, "What's the optimum way to build a bridge across the Bering Strait?".

It reminds me of a story; A guy goes to the produce store and asks if they have any potatoes and the clerk says, "No, we sold out this morning and won't have any for two more days".
Two hours later the same guy goes back to the store and asks the same clerk if they have any potatoes and the clerk says, "No, I told you that this morning too". About three hours later the same guy goes back to the store and asks the same clerk if they have any potatoes and the clerk says, "Here's how I spell potatoes; P-o-t-a-f-u-c-k-t-o-e-s". The guy says, "There is no 'fuck' in potatoes!". The clerk says, "That's what I have been telling you all day!"

Some people can't understand or accept clear and concise answers to their questions.

Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:01 pm

Quote: Cooling off period over? Good. My turn.

Oasis you missed my point of this thread totally and thats fine. Their will be the die hards that can think Mr. Raby can do no wrong. There';s and your input here is a bit misguided. I can accept the fact that his rocker arm shaft are not for hydraulic engines what i could not accept was attitude, lack of information, lack of product knowledge, and inadequate description of the part on his website. If you read my first post. I did ask the thesamba community if this part was applicable to my needs. Most responded they did not know, others suggested his parts, so armed with a bunch of im not sure's i went to his website, the website only said for type 2. I felt that this info was not enough to render making a decision on buy Jakes parts or not, so i decided to call Raby himself. Now let me just back up a few. At this point of my full restoration and am on my 3rd bus I have had a few dealings with vendors in the VW world. I have heard plenty of stories of Mr. Raby good and bad, and let me just say I do not judge unless i could taste and smell myself. I have had the great pleasure of talking with some greats about my enginee rebuild one of whom is Len from Ham Inc. Len gives his time and knowledge to his clients to help the best make there decisions on which route to go. I am currently rebuilding my engine with Ham Inc improved heads and want only the best in my restoration which leads me to discuss my needs with many vendors all across the world. I just post on a already live thread that was similar review to my issue with Jake. Now Jake says some how i reopened this thread just to whine. That far from the truth. I review Jake because of the lack of customer service and most of all the lack of information about the part he was selling. I did not anyone else to get confused about Mr. Raby's parts and have to call him only to get the snub. IF you read his intial post he is a im taking my toys somewhere else to play kind of person. There is no level professional thinking in his responsen to a bad review. He just attacked me on and on. He stated to let it go and i responded in kind and made know more posts on the isssue from 10.30 ish am on. Mr. Raby decided to post at 5;30pm my time on a thread I started ask the very question is there a good source for rocker arm shafts, Raby again started attacking my chararcter and saying some real trouble things. If i may i would like to say a couple of the statements he made as they were immediatly deleted. Raby wrote something similar to this affect. He was going on about how he only has a non discloser for his customers to sign that buy his engine to protect ( i think this what he said, " his intellectual integrity") do not quote me on this as again it got deleted right after he posted it. I do not know about you but never have i delt with a service indurstry vendor and been faced with signing such a thing. Makes you wonder about some things. Why would he need such a document? Might be why you do not hear from those that own Raby;s stuff and had issues? Im not sure but is fishy at best. Raby on that very thread further went on to attack my character by saying something to this affect, "i must have a few scews loose and if im like another thesamba member ( and Jake actual gave the guys avatar name) I would shoot myself in the head with a .38." Now this statement struck me as very dusgusting expecially coming from the Great Raby. It didnt stop there with his attitude he went on to say that he will call me Monday and i better be there. He also made a vail threat saying that if i push his buttons i will see what he's capable of. Now i ask you, who is this guy Jake Raby, to me hes been a bulley, all because i reviewed my experience with his company. He has followed me around harrasing me and making ugly comments about killing myself with a gun, after saying we should let this issue go. His actions have forced me to keep commenting on this thread as there inflammitory and false. This thread was only intended to speak the truth of one mans interaction with a company. You decide weather the company handled themselves professionally in this matter, I accept that. I only want others to know of my experience. I did not think for a second I would be attacked by the owner or others for my review but with all the personal feed back, PM, and phone calls i a have recieved in the past two days since my review i know i am not alone in what i have said here. Now i did not make that statement to inflame any Raby die hards its just fact many have responded expressing there issues with the great Raby.

I do not want this to get bigger than what it is. A customer service and product information issue.