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Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:20 pm

Opinions are like a$$holes everyone has one... :lol:

I still VERY disagree with fi...it was good ..in it's time!!!!

while your searching junkyards..for 30 +yr old parts and fuel pumps up north new are $300 alone/opposed to a NEW carb $300 and new 009 $50

I'll still be on the road and any hick town has my parts
as IF you could remedy a fi prob without the right amount of tool$..faster than I or any mech could a 009/carb setup!!with minimal tool$

MY opinion........

Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:36 pm

Thanks for the tips and advice.

The FI vs carb debate is pretty much the proverbial dead horse around here though. Or perhaps pro life vs pro choice. I don't think anyone is going to change anyone elses opinion by arguing with them here.

Anyway, we took it to our shop (Wolfsburg motorwerks), and it took the owner about 7 minutes of fiddling with the carb settings and the distributor to get everything adjusted. Seems to be running quite well at this point. And he didn't even charge us a thing! All told we took up at least 1/2 hour of his time. I think Wolfsburg motorwerks is awesome and would highly recommend them.

Our older 1.8L seemed to be smoother and much quieter... But it runs again, and we spent much much less than the 1500 -3500.

We'll look into our other options down the road, but for now we are just excited to be on the road!

Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:43 am

Glad you're back on the road.

Canabus - yes we can all have opinions, and I DO agree that "every hick town will have your parts" which can be comforting. All I do though is have basicly an extra FI system in my toolbox. Not all put together - but I do have every part should something go south. Its very easy to diagnose as well - so *shrug*.

But they aren't "expensive."

In my opinion a well tuned FI system is far superior to anything short of Dual Dells. And even then, you'll get better milage with the FI system. But - the 009 will give you higher temps. I have yet to see a single VW that this is NOT the case on. But it's a LOT more pronounced on a 3500lb bus than the 1500lb beetle.

In my opinion - the 009 is fine for a stop-gap measure - or to have in the toolbox should something go wrong, but other than that - pretty much junk.

And yes - opinions are like arseholes...everyone has one. :lol:

Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:42 am

Quote,"In my opinion - the 009 is fine for a stop-gap measure - or to have in the toolbox should something go wrong, but other than that - pretty much junk."

Unless your fortunate enough to have a German one to begin with. Also while crusing down the highway there won't be a difference between the 009 and SVDA since the SVDA has no vaccum signal at speed.

Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:57 am

udidwht wrote:
Unless your fortunate enough to have a German one to begin with. Also while crusing down the highway there won't be a difference between the 009 and SVDA since the SVDA has no vaccum signal at speed.

That is not exactly true. Driving down the road at partial throttle and a light load on the engine, the vacuum function will deliver additional advance that your type 4 engine craves. Granted under a wide open throttle, the centrifical advance is what runs the show, but driving at 65 mph on a level road is where the vacuum really shines. You do not want to exceed 42º of toal advance (centrifical + vacuum).

Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:09 am

Quote: Unless your fortunate enough to have a German one to begin with. Also while crusing down the highway there won't be a difference between the 009 and SVDA since the SVDA has no vaccum signal at speed.

I agree with Randy - the 009 has a different advance curve than any other vacuum advanced distributor EXCEPT at WOT and in excess of 3500 RPM. Thats is simply NOT optimal at all.

If you've driven a bus with a 009 - and then compared it to a bus with a correctly set up vac advanced distributor you can feel the difference. The throttle is MUCH more snappy at lower speeds, response is improved, and pulling power is a LOT better.

Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:50 am

So, how do I check the amount of vacuum from the weber progressive to see if I can get it to work with the vacuum advance?

And if it is not enough, how do I know how much to drill that thing out?

We're considering switching the engine back to FI, but have to go through what we have to see if we have all the parts, or if the parts we have even work.

Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:10 am

Use a vacuum guage from your local Auto Parts Store. They just attach to the nipple on the carb.

I can't remember WHERE on the carb - but there should be a vacuum port - and thats stock. Should be on the back side (facing you as you look in the engine compartment) - mine had it I do recall. It may have a rubber stop on it if its not hooked up.

On the FI setup - let us know if you need anything. I have a whole set of injectors extra, two extra cold start valves, a dual relay, and various other parts. Also - the parts come up in the classifieds on here pretty often.

Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:15 am

Cool, thanks Ryan. I'll try and go through and take stock of what we have, possible post some pictures, as I am not sure what all we need for it.

Thanks!

Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:15 am

[email protected] wrote: Quote: Unless your fortunate enough to have a German one to begin with. Also while crusing down the highway there won't be a difference between the 009 and SVDA since the SVDA has no vaccum signal at speed.

I agree with Randy - the 009 has a different advance curve than any other vacuum advanced distributor EXCEPT at WOT and in excess of 3500 RPM. Thats is simply NOT optimal at all.

If you've driven a bus with a 009 - and then compared it to a bus with a correctly set up vac advanced distributor you can feel the difference. The throttle is MUCH more snappy at lower speeds, response is improved, and pulling power is a LOT better.

I've driven many with vaccum dizzys and have yet to find one that runs as nearly good as mine. If your good at toying with the 009 dizzys they can be made (re-curved) to run without any noticable flat spots. As long as you have a good German 009, all others are crap.

If you take a stock bus/Westy and remove the vaccum dizzy and replace it with a 009 then of course your without a doubt going to have a flat spot. But change out the Solex carbs for dual Webers(properly set-up) and re-curve the German 009, swap out the stock exhaust and you can get rid of the flat spot and run as good or better than with an SVDA. It can be done!Nothing is impossible.

72 Westy 2056cc T-4

96mm P/C's - K/B's
42x36mm heads
71mm stroke
#73 Web cam w/matched solids
Dual 40mm Webers
German 009 w/Pertronix (re-curved)
S&S 4in1 header w/quietpack
002 tranny
185R14's

Hwy @ 65-70 mph 24mpg
City - 18 mpg

Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:29 am

The problem with the 009 is that it can NOT respond to the driver's needs. When you tromp on it - the advance - no matter that curve - is dictated by the engine RPM - period. Sure you could re-curve it to get close to what you need - but you will always be off. It may run better recurved than not - but - it wont run optimally.

Even the SVDA has to be recurved as it is not set optimally.

I don't doubt that your 009 is better off than it was out of the box - but have you tried a re-curved SVDA? Just curious....

Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:41 am

[email protected] wrote: The problem with the 009 is that it can NOT respond to the driver's needs. When you tromp on it - the advance - no matter that curve - is dictated by the engine RPM - period. Sure you could re-curve it to get close to what you need - but you will always be off. It may run better recurved than not - but - it wont run optimally.

Even the SVDA has to be recurved as it is not set optimally.

I don't doubt that your 009 is better off than it was out of the box - but have you tried a re-curved SVDA? Just curious....

No I personally haven't ran an SVDA in my bus (re-curved or not). Of all the buses I've driven/driven in I've yet to run across one that has the get up&go that mine has. I can take hills with ease. It would take at least an 8-10% grade with curves before I would have to consider downshifting.

My Westy is running just the way I had planned on it running when rebuilt.

Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:21 am

Here is a photo guide to help you see where the vac take off is located.
http://webernorthamerica.com/pdffiles/webertroubleshootingguide.pdf

Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:01 am

... solexes... I read from your advice you always condem the 009s, yet you run one on you FI Bus, which you seem to be battling with constantly.
You downrate carburetors, and choose instead to struggle with FI. To top it off, your username... man!

Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:22 am

Jeff Geisen wrote: ... solexes... I read from your advice you always condem the 009s, yet you run one on you FI Bus, which you seem to be battling with constantly.
You downrate carburetors, and choose instead to struggle with FI. To top it off, your username... man!

He's an enigma! :lol:

I am broke at the moment, but pondering a vacuum advance dizzy with an adapted small block chevy adjustable vacuum can. Mallory unit for a little more effort and a lot less price.

My h30/31 on an adapter plate to the 1600 dual port runs ok with the 009. No bogs, flat spots or the like... its just a hair rich. The 34pict3 did fine before I rebuilt it, the flat spot is a RICH bog from the accelerator pump. Torn one = no bog. A more adjustable linkage would solve a lot of head aches, smaller shot with a softer spring would cure it.

Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:23 am

Quote: 72 Westy 2056cc T-4

96mm P/C's - K/B's
42x36mm heads
71mm stroke
#73 Web cam w/matched solids
Dual 40mm Webers
German 009 w/Pertronix (re-curved)
S&S 4in1 header w/quietpack

First off - everything in this list BUT the 009 would be why your bus kicks butt with the 009. If you threw out the 009 and added in a mallory re-curved by Jake or an SVDA you would probably be blown away by how much you're missing.

Don't get me wrong - the 009 IS a good distributor for certain applications - and can definately be a god-send in a pinch should the SVDA you have installed on your bus / bug / whatever blow it's vacuum can. But - its been proven that the Type IV requires extra advance during lower RPMs and climbing a hill - but the 009 is dependant on the RPMs of the engine - and you wont get the right amount of advance when going up hill.

Quote: ... solexes... I read from your advice you always condem the 009s, yet you run one on you FI Bus, which you seem to be battling with constantly.
You downrate carburetors, and choose instead to struggle with FI. To top it off, your username... man!

Jeff --- I have the 009 on my bus because I couldn't wait - I needed to get it on the road and out of my mom's garage in Tucson since she's selling the house - and having my 78 bus in the driveway is NOT going to encourage people into purchasing the house LOL. Yet I didn't have the cash for the Mallory at the time (see my Camper Special rebuild thread) It runs - it drives - but it's only at about 60% of it's full potential because of the 009.

I've already plunked down the do-re-mi for the Mallory from Jake (as of Friday). And that sucker aint cheap - ($389) but its curved to the camper special - and the mechanical advanced Mallory is superior even to the SVDA.

As far as my user name - lol - I picked it based off of a love for the old Solex mopeds - and since I used to own numerous Solex mopeds - I picked the name Solexes (Plural of Solex - which is the shortened version of the Model name - Velo Solex). Also - I was not into the late busses - or any busses when I originaly joined on The Samba back in it's original format in 2001 - I owned a 63 beetle which also had the Solex carb. But I digress.

The Moped:
http://www.velosolexamerica.com/

I actualy haven't had any trouble with my FI system. The ONLY trouble I had was a non-properly connected computer connector (less than 3 seconds to diagnose and fix) and thinking I hadn't had it set up right. In reality it's been just peachy since I installed it. Yes - I'm dialing it in - but I'd be in the same boat if I had carbs...

I dog the Webber Carb and the 009 since in my own personal experience - the combo of both of them lead to the demise of two engines. One - my fault before I knew better - and the other prior to purchasing the bus. Which - if you see by the pics in my gallery - was installed on a Gex Engine in the 78 I installed the Camper Special into.

:roll:

Tue Sep 04, 2007 11:27 am

Rocknrod - I hear Jake has had problems with the vacuum can Mallory - and that the vacuum in that case really doesn't add all that much to the Type IV. I read all the reviews - on here and elsewhere about the mallory being better than the SVDA and went that route. The SVDA is MUCH better than the 009 though...and I have experienced that first hand on other busses I've owned / driven.

Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:16 pm

... you haven't had F.I. problems? You digress;
I will refresh your memory...

7-10 idle problem
( 7-21 buying the vac. adv. distributor in a week)
7-24 F.I. quit
7-24 (later the same day) F.I. system quit
8-3 F.I. system problem
8-14 high temps, F.I. mixture problem
8-27 vacuum lines mixed up (F.I. problem)

That stuff there is a looooooong 3 seconds!

Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:41 pm

Quote: 7-10 idle problem
( 7-21 buying the vac. adv. distributor in a week)
7-24 F.I. quit
7-24 (later the same day) F.I. system quit
8-3 F.I. system problem
8-14 high temps, F.I. mixture problem
8-27 vacuum lines mixed up (F.I. problem)

"Buying the vac adv dist in a week" - so I didn't get it done and decided to go a different route. *shrug* Sue me...If we held each person to the fire over what they said they were GOING to do and what they DID - we'd have one big roast.... :roll:

"FI system quit" - yup - ended up being a wiring / operator (IE me) issue - I failed to tighten down the solenoid nut on the starter - three wires came off causing power to fail to the dual relay - resulted in the effect LOOKING like a bad ballast resistor. Once I realised what it was - a 2 minute repair - crawled under the bus, re attached wired, tightened down the nut. Fin.

"F.I. system problem" - brain connector wasn't tight. Once I realised what it was - 3 seconds. Resulted in the bus running overly rich as all the contacts weren't making contact. That was the only one that happened away from home / work.

High temps FI mixture problem - ended up NOT being an FI mixture problem - 009 problem as the problem ONLY exists when pulling a serious load (ie - most likely bad timing curve). Slowing down kept my temps down - enjoyed the scenery a little more.

Vacuum lines mixed up - were NOT mixed up - if you continued to read the post....I had them right - I had been worried that I hadn't had them right so I asked if I had them mixed up.

Each time the "system failed" I was able to diagnose it in a relatively short amount of time and get it back on the road. As I've gotten more and more familiar with the system - I've gotten used to what symptoms mean what. Maybe not 3 seconds - but not over an hour or so (btw - before you take me to task about the time the FI system failed and it took me a few hours to repair - mind you - I repaired the system during breaks here at work - less than an hour to finally figure out what was going on with the wiring - and to fix it).

Exageration *shrug* we all do it sometimes...

Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:08 pm

This thread has gotten really stupid.