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Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:17 am

It seems to me there are more rebuilt 1600cc engines available on the market than 1800cc. Is there a reason for this,are they a better engine than the 1800cc or were there just more of then made? The reason Im asking is my Bus has a 1800cc and when I get ready to do the engine work should I use a 1600 or 1800 engine Replacement? And will a 1600 engine fit the transmission in my bus now..Without much of a problem..(74 bus 1800cc single webber carb setup.manual trany) :?: :?: If it were you would you replace your 1800cc with a 1600cc??THANKS jrbo

Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:31 am

You want to start controversy don't ya? :)

Its a LOT of work to get a 1600 to play right with your stock setup.

More VWs had 1600s but you can still get the parts you need to rebuild your type 4 motor - lots of discusion on these topics previously if you search the forums.

Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:29 pm

Quote: You want to start controversy don't ya?

Its a LOT of work to get a 1600 to play right with your stock setup.

More VWs had 1600s but you can still get the parts you need to rebuild your type 4 motor - lots of discusion on these topics previously if you search the forums.

Welcome to the mud-pit.

First a little background.

The 1600 (Type I engine) was availible in the VW Baywindow Bus from 1968-1971, and from 1972-1979 in Europe. In America we had the replacement to the Type I engine - the Type IV. The Type IV was a beefier engine, using an aluminum block, and produced more HP and Torque than the Type I.

You will hear a lot of people say "The Type IV" is "too expensive" and is "troublesome." Well - a piece is what a lot of people say.

However, its important to remember - that while the Type IV IS a VW engine, its different, and requires a different mind-set than the Type I.

Reasons
The Type IV is heavier and thicker
The Type IV also creates more heat
The Type IV had to comply to emissions standards that were becoming stricter.

While the parts are a LITTLE more expensive than the Type I - remember - you're getting more power, and a longer living engine to boot (try finding a stock Type I that has lasted more than 200k and is still rebuildable).

Welcome to the world of the type IV.

Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:57 pm

I didnt want to start a controversy on this question..I just would like to have some facts for the better engine as far as what you all consider a more reliable and longer lasting engine. I have had a 40 horse 64 Bus in the past so I know the ins and outs for that engine,and I must say that one was ...a good engine. Alittle short on power but very reliable...Thanks for your responce.....jrbo...in the mud-pit :) :)

Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:03 pm

jrbo wrote: I didnt want to start a controversy on this question..I just would like to have some facts for the better engine as far as what you all consider a more reliable and longer lasting engine. I have had a 40 horse 64 Bus in the past so I know the ins and outs for that engine,and I must say that one was ...a good engine. Alittle short on power but very reliable...Thanks for your responce.....jrbo...in the mud-pit :) :)

In my opinion, if your Bus ALREADY has an 1800, you would do well to stick with a newer Type-4. I don't know about your area, but it's pretty common for me to head down to the local U-Pull-It we have in South Florida, and there are typically at least 1 or 2 Porsche 914s, as well as a couple of newer bay-window Busses. The last two times I've been there, there have been more Porsche 914s than Busses (there was only 1 Bus last time, and it was an early Bay Bus), but it's not uncommon to find the 2 liter motors. You would do well to grab one of those. The way I see it, if you're going to go through the hassle and the expense of rebuilding a motor, you might as well get the most powerful one you can.

A more power VW motor will usually net better fuel economy due to the fact that it's less effort to move the big beast and get it going. It's also a bit safer considering that you'll be able to accelerate quicker (if you need to). Rebuilding motors USUALLY costs nearly the same, regardless of the motor unless it's something exotic like a Porsche or a Maserati motor.

Definitely get a 2000cc if you can, or keep your 1800.

Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:11 pm

After reading the above posts, it seems that I can drop either an 1800 or 2000 into my 71 Bus, no worries. Is this the case?

Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:24 pm

TheTominator wrote: After reading the above posts, it seems that I can drop either an 1800 or 2000 into my 71 Bus, no worries. Is this the case?

Anything that is Type-4 will fit. So, that means anything from like 1700cc all the way to 2000cc... and all the stroker kits above and in between. There is even one that will let you go to 2400cc...

Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:02 pm

If you have a 71 bus set up for a type 1 engine, keep it that way. That is a fairly difficult swap (of putting a type 4 engine into a 68-71 bus).

You can get a very well built type 1 built to provide the torque you need to get your bus moving for pretty reasonable money.

If you have a type 4 bus 72-79, I would suggest keeping it that way. We generally stay pretty close to the stock 2.0L and strive to keep the cylinder head temperatures reasonable. If you go bigger, you better know what you are doing.

Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:04 pm

TheTominator wrote: After reading the above posts, it seems that I can drop either an 1800 or 2000 into my 71 Bus, no worries. Is this the case?

No. Your bus had a Type 1 motor originally so the only that that will drop in "no worries" will be another type 1 carburated motor.

Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:52 am

Ooops, sorry. I thought he said he had an 1800 (they are all Type4s right?)

Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:32 am

Quote: 74 bus 1800cc single webber carb setup.manual trany

He has the Type IV powered bus.

8)

Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:33 am

Whoops - sorry about that - we have two people asking the same question - original poster has a 74 bus for you "Yes you can use the Type IV powered bus - not the Type I.

For the second poster....(Terminator) you're going to want the Type I engine.

Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:32 am

82-T/A wrote: jrbo wrote: I didnt want to start a controversy on this question..I just would like to have some facts for the better engine as far as what you all consider a more reliable and longer lasting engine. I have had a 40 horse 64 Bus in the past so I know the ins and outs for that engine,and I must say that one was ...a good engine. Alittle short on power but very reliable...Thanks for your responce.....jrbo...in the mud-pit :) :)

In my opinion, if your Bus ALREADY has an 1800, you would do well to stick with a newer Type-4. I don't know about your area, but it's pretty common for me to head down to the local U-Pull-It we have in South Florida, and there are typically at least 1 or 2 Porsche 914s, as well as a couple of newer bay-window Busses. The last two times I've been there, there have been more Porsche 914s than Busses (there was only 1 Bus last time, and it was an early Bay Bus), but it's not uncommon to find the 2 liter motors. You would do well to grab one of those. The way I see it, if you're going to go through the hassle and the expense of rebuilding a motor, you might as well get the most powerful one you can.

A more power VW motor will usually net better fuel economy due to the fact that it's less effort to move the big beast and get it going. It's also a bit safer considering that you'll be able to accelerate quicker (if you need to). Rebuilding motors USUALLY costs nearly the same, regardless of the motor unless it's something exotic like a Porsche or a Maserati motor.

Definitely get a 2000cc if you can, or keep your 1800.

I wouldn't have minded a 2·0 litre, VW-Porsche 914 engine, for my British specification, 1973 VW 1600 Type 2, but they are as rare as hen's teeth over here!

I think that during the past 35 years or so, I have seen fewer 1·7, 1·8 or 2·0 litre VW-Porsche 914s being driven, than I could count on one hand and never found any in car breaker's yards.

Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:11 am

First thanks for the advice...Just one more question.. If I use my 1800cc case and my 1800cc heads can I just get a rebuild kit ? Without having to machine out the case for new pistons.In other words use all my exsisting parts just new rings /bearings and reface the valves. Someone askes where I live,I live in Nebraska in the middle of nowhere :D Use to live in Salinas Ca. for 40 years by retired to ne. in 95...AGAIN THANKS.....jrbo :D :D

Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:53 am

In addition to whatever you have in parts and budget, I would also allow for new piston/cylinders & heads.

Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:10 am

Can I get new pistions/jugs without machining the case? And also Is a rebuild kit for an 1800cc actually 1776cc or 1835cc?? I have been looking at the 1776cc Classic Daily Driver performance kit that Mid America motoworks has to offer page 91 will that be the correct kit for my 1800cc 74 bus?? If you have that book? Any help would be great :!: :D

Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:17 am

No those engines are for a type 1 engine of which you are not.

Buy your parts here http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/catsearch.php?categoryid=E&cmd=sub&perpage= Get the P&C properly balanced and send them your connecting rods also and to have them be correctly re-bushed on both ends with new ARP rod bolts.

If you think your heads are rebuildable or if you buy new heads and need to get them improved, send them here and have them done correctly. Your machine shop in stinkwater, nebraska most likely cannot do them correctly (I know mine can't)

http://www.ratwell.com/technical/Misc/HeadFlowMasters1.jpg

Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:23 am

Thanks, I think a long block from this company maybe the best way to go for me...?? I will look into this...jrbo

Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:26 am

Well if you are thinking about a longblock, you would be well served to go here and just get it done right the first time....

http://www.bostonengine.com/enginepricelist.html

Rebuild those dual carbs while you are waiting.

Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:51 am

jrbo -

Currently there is one person making a longblock for the Type IV - that is good. Do NOT - repeat - do NOT skimp on the Type IV. It may be pricier than that 1600DP - but also more powerfull - and as I said before - will need a different mind-set.

In general - unless your Machinist is a Type IV machinist, no matter how many "years of experience" he has in rebuilding heads - unless he has a proven track record of doing Type IV heads repeatedly - do NOT take your heads to him.

There are two well known sources for getting your heads rebuild. Len Hoffman (who does heads for Jake Raby) or Adrien at Headflowmasters.

Why all this talk about heads? The heads are the number one point of failure on the Type IV engine. Since the Type IV runs hotter than the type I beetle-style engine, the heads are more prone to stress. The temperature that seats are installed at the VW factory is around 400. That just so happens to be about the MAX temp you should EVER run.

Most of the time - when the Type IV engine dies - its more than likely a head issue. The design is pretty robust. The engine in my 78 came out of a 77 with 200k on the clock. Its been rebuilt.

As far as your question on kits.

Jake Raby makes the ONLY Type IV rebuild kits. They are EXPENSIVE - but -- and heres the thing - the kits provide:

20% increase in HP and torque while keeping the stock displacement (proven on a Dyno)

Every Part you Will Need!
- And I do mean EVERY part. You keep the case, oil pressure valve / assembly, oil filter fitting, oil inlet pipe, and the distributor drive gear and oiler. The rest is pretty much provided.

Free Case Inspection.

Heres the thread on my experience with the kit
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=214916&highlight=

BTW - do NOT go the GEX engine route.