TheSamba.com :: View topic - GoWesty vs Van-Cafe springs

Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:06 am

I'm looking at getting new springs for my 84 Westy

What is the difference other than price ?

GoWesty p/n# Part #2WD-SPRINGLIFT

Van-Cafe p/n#Part #: 2WDLiftSpring

I just installed Bilstein's HD stocks all the way around

This is a big commitment for me so any advice is appreicated Samba land

Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:25 am

Customer service at Vancafe is wonderful and no comment on Gowesty.

Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:25 am

im about to put on some blistens as well,was it very hard ?did it make it better?should i put springs in also?i haVE 120,000 on my westy.i got the hd from go-westy

Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:54 am

Before I begin, I want you guys to know that my opinion of this is NOT a reflection of my opinion about Van-Cafe or GoWesty, just the springs themselves.

The big difference in the two springs is quality. H&R makes a VERY good spring and has for many, many years.

H&R springs (what GoWesty sells) are cold wound, VanCafe's springs are hot wound. The difference is that hot winding is a cheaper method that results in inconsistant coil windings. Cold winding ensures that every coil is consistant in it's dimensions and coil spacing. Without this consistancy, the spring rates of the springs (how much load the spring can carry at any given weight) can vary widely from spring to spring as can the installed load height. Cold winding is much more expensive due to the machinery involved.

H&R springs are then tempered to increase it's "toughness" and making it more ductile while keeping it's strength. Not to say that VanCafe's springs do not got through this process, but they don't mention it. I know that some of the lower cost spring makers fall short in this area.

H&R springs are made from chrome-silicon (54SiCr6) spring steel which is about as good as you can get for coil spring construction. VanCafe only mentions "high quality steel". Using chrome-silicone spring steel allows the spring to be more consistant and allows the actual wire to be slightly thinner with the same strength.

Now here is the biggest difference between a quality spring and a cheaper spring. H&R uses what they call the “SuperBlok™” system which cycles the springs through a series of motions and calculated compressive measures to ansure that the spring will not loose any load height after being installed. In other words, the spring will not "sag". Cheaper springs do not invlove this process and therefore you WILL have some settling of the spring after they are installed.

When you combine the inconsistancy of a hot wound spring, questionable materials and heat treatments with the lack of pre-cycling, you have a recipe for a poor quality spring. Not to say that they can't be used with some success, but they are inferior to a quality spring, period.

Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:07 am

Here's another recent post.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=272234

Syncro.org also sells 2wd lift springs.

http://syncro.org/springs.shtml

The ride height as reported by a Samba user for the GoWesty springs is 18.5". This may settle a bit. Syncro.org says their springs will give a final ride height of 17". You can read about their springs too. Genuine H&R springs seem like the best quality in my opinion but the ride height may be more than I'm looking for.

Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:24 pm

If you go to go westy's site they have a side by side comparison of H&R springs VS the the cheaper ones. I would say the H&R would be the way to go after reading that article. They just seem like they will last longer and you will get a true lift with them.

Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:13 pm

Loogy, thank you for the very informative explanation. As a teacher and budding mechanic, I am always trying to read and learn as much as I possibly can about the engineering of an automobile (especially Vanagons). You explanations are very clear, lucid, and to the point. I just wanted to let you know that your input is very well recieved and appreciated.

Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:41 pm

I put a H&R cupkit on my 96 Jetta and was lucky enough to have purchased my 2004 Passat with H&R lowering springs.

bottom line: THE BEST THERE IS!

you get what you pay for and they will be the last spring you purchase unless you keep your van another 20 years. :D

Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:18 pm

iceracer wrote: Customer service at Vancafe is wonderful and no comment on Gowesty.

This is not my experience (even if it seems i am part of the minority). I called Gowesty and the rep took all the time explaining and answering all my questions. Vancafe's rep seem to have something else to do that was more important. First time i called and i was not impressed.

Then, 2 days after putting my order at gowesty, i get a gowesty 10% off newsletter/coupon. I email explaining my luck and was given a equivalent credit on my next purchase. that to me is customer service.

Quote: you get what you pay for and they will be the last spring you purchase unless you keep your van another 20 years.

Darn, i am going to buy those again?

Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:20 pm

oh i did buy gowesty HR spring with bilsteins... cant wait for them to get here...

Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:00 pm

H & R springs are the best springs made. Eibach is also good, but they don't do Vanagon.

Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:33 am

I had the GW 2WD springs installed two weeks ago by local alignment shop. Remember vehicle WILL need re-alignment after install. And the shop can and did do the installation a lot more efficiently than I could.

My '91 Westy has over 200K. As well as we could determine my springs were the originals (great docs from 1st and only PO). They were TIRED.

The GoWesty springs are simply fabulous. I've been out trying to beat them in. I’ve put on only a few hundred miles so far, but no measurable "relaxing" as yet. The ride is great. Great. They’re firm and soft all at the same time. Read progressive. Alignment shop recommended a 1000 mile break-in then bring it back to tweak alignment. Don’t know what GW recommends but this seems reasonable to me.

I had done some pretty thorough measuring to make sure Westy would fit in my garage. GW states 1.5 lift over OEM but also includes caveat about original spring’s condition. Point is, with my original springs sag (especially drivers side lean) to new springs, the vehicle is around 3 inches higher. MY SKYLIGHT BRUSHES THE RUBBER WEATHER SEAL OF GARAGE DOOR! But it FITS. Ya-whoo! (I have GW’s 16” rims and newer Bilsteins as well so I’m sitting pretty, getting used to falling out of the driver’s seat to the ground WAY down there).

Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:12 pm

Don't forget that Van-cafe also sells Weitec German made springs that are equal in quality to H&R.

http://www.weitec.de/de/index_d.html
http://www.van-cafe.com/vanagon_parts.jsp?pa=p&p=236632900&pct=1061144741&ct=1566203830

Determine your driving style, what percent you are on-road, highway, etc and then go for the proper tire, brake and suspension set up. My needs are 20% highway, 60% secondary roads, the rest campsite off-road. Due to mainly on secondary roads, a lower, better handling and good braking Westfalia was needed for us.

Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:54 pm

well I finally got my GoWesty springs installed and holy $%^&&* they are nice, soft when I need, and stiff enough to carry a load , the powder coat on them is tough as nails..I'm really happy with them

here is how they look

Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:06 pm

Kayakwesty,

What's the ride height? Center of wheel to edge of fender? What size tires are you running?

Thanks!

Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:58 am

Man you ask some hard hitting questions

I have no idea on the center tire question, but Loggy’s ultimate tire thread might answer that

My ride height lifted the back up, but the front stayed about the same I had the high springs due to my 84 having the factory high springs.

As for the tire size, here is a webpage I made on it

http://www.kayakwesty.com/tireupgrade.html

Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:45 am

For ride height all you need to do is take a tape measure and measure it. Measure from the edge of the fender down to the center of the wheel. It should be somewhere around 18". Real simple! :wink:

Like this:

http://www.syncro.org/springs.shtml#2WDsprings

Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:47 pm

Experiment in progress: I have an older set of syncro.org springs that have left me underwhelmed. Lots of sag over the last 4/5 yrs. Front is basically down to stock levels and feels really soft..., leaving the ass end really proud. Moreover, it took a LOT of shimming on the left rear to account for the westy lean.

So, I just ordered a set of gowesty springs.

Once installed etc, it should give me a great comparison, having had both!

Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:59 am

I had GW 2WD springs installed (Fred's Garage in Redwood City did the install) on my 89 Westy and am very happy. If you keep your Westy loaded and ready to go - you may want to consider adding an additional spacer to the left rear spring to help alleviate the Westy Lean that comes from all of the kitchen equipment, closets + gear.

Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:34 pm

Thanks for the tip. I'll take mine to Fred's too.

I just got the box in the mail. Kinda cool that they springs have their date of mfr on them, along with "front" or "rear", "2wd", and of course "gowesty".

My office mates are now certain I've lost my noodle. "buy a new car already!". They don't understand, but I actually have! One piece at a time, year by year... It's like George Washington's axe...