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Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:40 pm

I'm looking to buy a new television soon. I occasionally play PS3 and my kids play the Wii. We're looking for a middle of the road set. Something that has a decent pic and will last a few years.What do you have? What are your opinions on either/both?

Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:51 pm

We just bought (beging of summer)a samsung 42 inch plasma, 7?? whatever hd and we love it. Kids play wii on it and has pc connection as well. works great as monitor for the computer. We upgraded from a regular flat crt 32. Never going back. we paid 1300$ on sale at best buy (price match)via circuit city add.

model#hpt4254x/xaa

Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:19 pm

Do some research on the differences.
Both have ups and downs, but from my experience (and many other people I know) the LCD wins out.
The biggest + in favor of the LCD with us was the matte/satin screens. Plasma screens finish is absolutely gloss. Looks awesome when turned off, but try watching TV with a light on or a window in the background, the reflection/glare is horrendous. I've also read that plasma screens have a shorter life expectancy, and can experience burn-in.
I think now plasmas are cheaper inch for inch? Read that too somewhere.
Prices are expected to drop another 25% in 6 months I think.

We have a 46" Vizio LCD in our restaurant, and have had it on probably 6 hours a day for 400-500 days straight.
Absolutely no trouble so far.

Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:25 pm

Plasmas look gteat from any angle. But the glare is awful. LCDs are getting better about the side fade. BUT...save your dough. New technology is on the way. LED sets are going to be the latest rage. Peace!

Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:54 pm

If you play ANY videogames on it, get an LCD. You will burn an image into the plasma, not the LCD.

If you can do it, get a 120mhz LCD (Samsung/Sony). The only problem with LCD's is they tend to drag alittle on action shots. This is eliminated with the 120mhz. I have a 52 inch samsung and its awesome.

Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:50 am

I sell TV's for the largest electronics retailer in the United States. (I just don't want to disclose anything that would infringe on "Confidential Proprietary Information").

Yes, as stated above Plasmas have glass panels on them, so they will reflect ambient light. However both Pioneer and Panasonic have instilled some technology to combat this problem. Pioneer uses a specially coated panel that absorbs some ambient light and causes reflections to bounce back in a less pronounced tone, so that they aren't noticed as much. If you turn one of them off or have a salesperson give you a demo you'll see it has an impact on the glare without compromising the picture in any way. Panasonic has put an anti glare coating on their 77U series, which makes the panel more of a satin finish. However this does cause the colors on the TV to have a bit more dull appearance.

In terms of image retention or "burn in", you would really have to try to cause this problem as an average user. Burn in on a plasma TV is the result of uneven distribution of heat and burning of the neon/xeon mix of gas contained in the sub pixels of the TV. You would have to have the same image in the same place on the television for HOURS.. at the very least 4 hours to run the risk of burn in. Both Panasonic and Pioneer have image shifting technology in their sets which move the image around to adjacent pixels if the TV recognizes an image in the same spot for more than 5 minutes. They also have a special process should you ever encounter burn in that will completely eliminate the problem. It runs the entire set on a white screen for I believe around 60 seconds. This should smooth out any problems. Burn in is definitely over hyped and the average user will never encounter an issue with this problem.

In terms of LCD screens and glare, pay attention to the panels.. some panels are now satin or gloss finish. Samsung makes a few series that are strictly glossy screens. They employ a special panel over the front of the TV that helps to enhance the appearance of black levels, which in turn increases the effective contrast of the picture. The Samsung 71,81,65,61 series all have this panel. Some of the Sony's now have very satin finish panels; these include the V series, W series and XBR series LCD TV's. Both manufacturers have basically attempted to further block some of the back lighting that the liquid crystals allow which causes the black colors to appear more purple or grey.

The extremely bright back lighting of LCD's are why I would recommend a Plasma over an LCD if you are looking for an ACCURATE depiction of color. This backlighting influences the colors to be more bright an almost cartoon like. Compare the accuracy of a Plasma panel to an LCD side by side and you'll see what I mean. Personally I don't like it when regular programs look cartoonish because the TV isn't properly adjusted. Some will say that Plasma's look dim, but thats only because you have an extremely bright LCD to contrast the picture with.

Plasmas are also generally better with duplicating motion. This is because the pixels of a plasma can turn on and off very quickly since they are emissive (they self illuminate). LCD's must rely on their rate of refreshing (rapid changing to another composition) to either allow or block the light being transmitted through the panel. This process requires more time, because rather than having an "off" option like the plasma to display black, the LCD must tell the pixels to block the light instead, adding more lag time.

To combat lag time, LCD's are now being made with 120hz processors. These processing engines are capable of displaying 120 frames per second. This speed tricks the eye into seeing a much smoother flow of motion, so smooth it almost looks like true movement. The 120hz allows the liquid crystals to respond much faster, because the signals that are instructing them to change are moving much faster. This can only be found on the Samsung 69 and 71 series, the Sony XBR4 and 5 models, and I believe the Sharp 83 series... but possibly in one or two of the Mitsubishi LCD's as well.

Now someone mentioned LED technology. OLED (Organic Light Emitting Diode) TV's in considerable sizes are a ways away.. I'd assume 3-5 years at the earliest. Not to mention, they'll come with a heavy price tag. An LED LCD, is simply an LCD TV back lit by LED's in favor of the fluorescent bulb(s) of today. LED's improve white capabilities, thus increasing effective contrast. The Samsung 81 series is the only flat panel TV I know of that uses LED's at the moment. This TV also uses whats called "local dimming". The LED's can completely shut themselves off in a given area where black is being displayed. This then creates black levels that duplicate those of Plasma's, effectively ending the backlight dilemma of LCD's and a true black. However, color on this TV is far from "natural".

If you'd like I can give you some info on the whole 1080p vs 720p debate and why its less important than some salesmen will tell you.

One last thing, Plasmas are only made in 42", 50", 58", 60", 63", and for those who can afford it.. 103". LCD's are generally in just about every size you can think of up to about 52". More common though for TV's are usually ONLY 26", 32", 37", 40", 42", 47", 52".

Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:52 am

I think DLP looks pretty good, especially for the price.
No, not a flat panel, but I won't be mounting my television on the wall anyways...

Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:12 am

Mr. Electric Wizard wrote: I think DLP looks pretty good, especially for the price.
No, not a flat panel, but I won't be mounting my television on the wall anyways...

We've had a JVC DLP for 3+ years. The only issue is it becomes muddy on a dark scene. It also takes awhile to power up. We have a LCD in the bedroom, no problems with that. The plasma that some friends have has that glossy glare. When we replace the JVC, we'll get a LCD.

Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:16 am

TimAlan wrote: Excellent education

Thanks.

What can you say about plasma and elevation. I live at 6,000 feet and it I've heard bad things about plasma and elevation.

Also, what about longevity? If I spend 2K for a friggin TV I want it to last.

Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:32 am

TimAlan wrote: In terms of image retention or "burn in", you would really have to try to cause this problem as an average user. Burn in on a plasma TV is the result of uneven distribution of heat and burning of the neon/xeon mix of gas contained in the sub pixels of the TV. You would have to have the same image in the same place on the television for HOURS.. at the very least 4 hours to run the risk of burn in.

I've played over 4 hrs in a stretch already....

Get an LCD.

Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:37 am

Don't the plasma screens have some uber-expensive bulb(s) that needs replacing every few years? I can't see dropping a couple of grand on a fancy flat panel that won't last longer than my 27" tube television. I've had that thing for almost 18 years and replaced the power supply in it one time at a cost of $150. That was cheaper than buying a new unit as the new units just plain sucked.

Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:42 am

We bought a philips "ambilight" 42 LCD and LOVE it. The sun has minimal effect, great picture and the ambilight on the wall behind the set is real cool in a dark room.

Dave

Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:20 am

I am an engineer for a company that builds road cases for anything. Much of our business is building cases for the entertainment and rental industries. In the past year, I haven't built a single plasma case. Everybody is going LCD, and I understand why. They are much more durable (plastic screen vs glass) and I think have a much better picture, especially if you sit closer to the unit.

Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:29 am

I bought a 61" samsung DLP HDTV 1080P last month. Love it!! No glare, all angles it picture is bright as day and I can sit in the yard and watch it. The only problem is that is you sit closer than 10 feet it gets a little fuzzy, that i think is bacause of the focal point.

I play video games once in a while on it and it works fine, no problems. It has the HDMI, and USB for computer hook up.

Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:59 am

50" Vizio Plasma owner here...Bought it due to the price for the size I wanted. I could not even come close to a 50" LCD for $1200. My Buddy has a nice 42" Panny LCD and it looks fantastic but he still wishes he went with the bigger set. Both our TV's look amazing with everything HD we throw at them. Glare is my only issue but I just have to turn off the Dining room light so no biggie.

Get the largest you can afford but do your research over at AVSforum.com. Trust me you will want a larger set if you buy a small one. Everyone who has a 42" and comes to my house says they should have gone to 50". It's a big step up. Good Luck

EDIT: OH SNAP! Just saw this!

http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthread.php?t=736055

Order it up!

Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:29 am

Icy, you are thinking about projectors. They are a nother breed of television. They have a bulb in them that has a limited life to them. It is usually about 2-3 years for the average viewer.

Someone asked about the life of tvs. Plasma and LCD both have a life of 60,000 hours which is something like 8 hours a day for 20 years.

Burn in on Plamsas used to be a problem but as said before it is not anything to worry about for the average consumer.

When the salesmen are telling you to buy a 1080i or p over a 720i or p you have to look at the size of the tv. for anything undeer 50", 1080 is not needed because you will not be able to see the difference ever. if you are buying a 50 or larger you should strongly consider getting 1080.

now the i and p behind 1080 and 720 means integrated and progressive. progressive has better claty than i but the market is starting to drop i and most tvs are p.

Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:30 am

I went back and forth on this subject for 3 months. In the end I bought a 52" Sony LCD XBR4. I love it. My family room is in the back of the house and faces south, so there is a lot of light that comes in which never leaves a glare on the picture. I've heard about the LCD action problem, but as stated above the 120mhz took care of this.

Do yourself a favor and go to the stores ask questions. Get different opinions , then shop online for free shipping with no sales tax.

Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:32 am

I have a Samsung 42" Plasma 720p Model# HP-T4254.
In my 600 sq. foot apartment it looks sweet.
The HD is sweet. I play the wii all the time with my wife. I had an 8 hour long session playing guitar hero with no burn in.

the samsung has the pixel shift and white screen technologies to guard against any burn in.

I also have my mac mini connected to it through DVI >HDMI and it looks sweet.

I'm happy with my plasma...

Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:07 am

Lots of mis information here.

FIrst. you want 1080P if you are going to view the latest and greatest content especially since you already have a PS3.. Anyone who says 720p looks like 1080p native needs glasses pretty badly

Here is a link showing the difference of visual detail capability between resolutions
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Vector_Video_Standards2.svg

Second. Specs are what decides how a tv is going to perform. IE Better contrast means better transition from blackto white etc. It usually means better black levels too. There is much more stuff involving refresh rates but new LCDs don't streak and ghost like the old ones. 120hz refresh is nice but you need content to see it as LCDs have none of the flicker of your old CRT TV. The more you research specs the more you will understand.

THird, DLP TVs have bulbs that burn out too.

Fourth, Understand that there has been a change in your electronic. All electronics have to conform to ROHs now. (No lead anymore in PCBs or components) The days of your TV lasting 20 years are over. Your TV lifespan is now under 6 years and less depending the quality of parts used.

Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:20 am

Ace wrote: Anyone who says 720p looks like 1080p native needs glasses pretty badly

I have a 37 inch Sony 720 and it looks just as good as my 52 inch Samsung. You do not need full high def for smaller TV's like this. Anything 46 or above, and i'm going 1080.