TheSamba.com :: View topic

Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:56 pm

<<The 30's are $9 each, plus shipping.>>

I'll have to say that the LED's are as bright as the incadescent's---looks good.

However, at 9 bucks a pop, plus whatever they get for S&H , and if you were able to use them in the front T/S socket's, that would be $100.00 plus.

Let's see, that would be 3 sets of incadecent's, with some change still left in your pocket.

I don't know if I'm ready to play Diamond Jim in the Vanagon light bulb department yet--- :lol:

Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:09 pm

It is pricey, a lot more so than the incandescent bulbs, but it's all in what you want to do. As for the turn signals, it is possible to use the voltage resistors, crimp them inline, insert the LEDs, and it's done. I switched the signal lights too for consistency. These things happen partly out of boredom, and partly because my van is my mistress.

One other benefit of note to switching to the LEDs, the lights comes on faster than a standard bulb. The speed is very noticeable when you leave a normal bulb in the opposite taillight. I don't know what this translates to in an emergency braking situation, but obviously at higher speeds the guy travelling directly behind you has more time and space to react.

Overall this was a fun project. Expect to spend a minimum of $80-$100 to swap all exterior bulbs to good quality LEDs. If you do this, start slow (maybe brake lights only) and determine if you like what you see before continuing.

Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:46 pm

Here is a link to the vanagon wiki page that has lots of options for incandescent bulbs with greater light output than stock, most of which you can get at local auto parts stores. It is a nice table with trade numbers, wattage, and candlepower. It's great for those of us who might want higher light output without the expence or other shortcomings some people worry about with LEDs.

Ed

http://www.vanagonwiki.net/index.php/Lights%E2%80%93Exterior_%2894%29

Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:25 pm

<<<These things happen partly out of boredom, and partly because my van is my mistress.>>>

Sounds more like an overpriced Hooker to me.

<<<One other benefit of note to switching to the LEDs, the lights comes on faster than a standard bulb. The speed is very noticeable when you leave a normal bulb in the opposite taillight. I don't know what this translates to in an emergency braking situation, but obviously at higher speeds the guy travelling directly behind you has more time and space to react.>>

Faster than a speeding bullet.

Let's see.

Most folks have been reacting to the tail light signal's off of a mechanical tail lamp switch since Henry Ford's model T, and nobody--not even Buzz Lightyear Inc. has an electronic switch that can transfer the power from the vehicles power system to the brake lights any faster than you can blink.

You can't possibly react as fast as the lights on the car in front of you come on now--

The LED's will not power up any faster than a plain old filiment bulb, the switch, or the guy pushing that pedal supplying the power.

If you want faster turn signal's,buy an electronic bigger amp, HD flasher, not just LED bulbs.

I wanna know where this placebo info came from.
Your making it sound like incadescent bulbs are like an old Crosley, Zenith, Philco radio or TV tubes--they take a while to warm up and throw light.

The guy behind the green curtain in Emerald City told you this secret info perhaps?

Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:19 pm

Terry Kay wrote:
You can't possibly react as fast as the lights on the car in front of you come on now--

The LED's will not power up any faster than a plain old filiment bulb, the switch, or the guy pushing that pedal supplying the power.

If you want faster turn signal's,buy an electronic bigger amp, HD flasher, not just LED bulbs.

I can't tell if you are joking or not...

Haven't you ever driven behind a vehicle with LED tail lights? The SUDDEN on is really quite noticeable, and almost alarming. A good thing for a stop light, but kind of jarring for a high-power turn signal, IMO.

By faster, he is talking about the difference in time it takes for a filament bulb to warm up and get to full intensity vs. an LED which literally is as fast as a speeding electron. After the switch is closed, that is.

You gotta get with the times, Terry... the filament bulb is one of the last refuges (THE last?) of the vacuum tube and its days are numbered.

But what do i know? I only design LED lighting...

Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:40 pm

I guess what I'm trying to get at--what's the difference?

You'll never be able to react to the difference in that bulb coming on be it a millisecond, or a 100th of a millisecond.
( If there is that kinda difference )

The time elapsed between the bulbs coming on is so miniscule, it's not humanly possible to make a measureable move to this hypothetical time difference.

Now I'm not the kinda guy to say show me the data on this cause it really isn't that important.

But just for the sake of converesation, and to keep this interesting I will say;--"I'm from Missouri--show me".

Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:02 am

C'mon TK, I don't have the time to make this stuff up. The information is there if you seek it out. The improved illumination time really has nothing to do with the speed of the power to the light, but rather the time it takes for the light itself to illuminate.

It is very noticeable when compared to a normal bulb, and compared to the amount of time it took those 50w bulbs to illuminate, the difference was even more pronounced. Here's some quick info I pulled from the Wikipedia page on LEDs:

Quote: Because of their long life and fast switching times, LEDs have been used for automotive high-mounted brake lights and truck and bus brake lights and turn signals for some time, but many high-end vehicles are now starting to use LEDs for their entire rear light clusters. Besides the gain in reliability, this has styling advantages because LEDs are capable of forming much thinner lights than incandescent lamps with parabolic reflectors. The significant improvement in the time taken to light up (perhaps 0.5s faster than an incandescent bulb) improves safety by giving drivers more time to react. It has been reported that at normal highway speeds this equals one car length increased reaction time for the car behind. White LED headlamps are beginning to make an appearance.

Here's another quote from an article at the following link: http://www.356registry.org/Tech/safety_and_taillights.html
Quote: Besides the increased brightness, another advantage of any LED unit is they come on instantly when the brakes are applied. Incandescent bulbs take a brief period of time (some people say about 0.2 seconds) to achieve full brightness. But at 70 mph, 0.2 seconds equals about 20 ft. So having LED taillights in a 356 is like putting another 20 ft. of distance behind you in terms of the reaction time of the driver following you. When the 356 driver with LED taillights applies his brakes, in essence the driver behind sees the brake lights 20 ft. "earlier" (at highway speeds) as compared to incandescent bulbs.

A quick search through you-tube produced an example for you to see:

Here's the same video slowed down to highlight the difference:

Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:11 am

I do know that the LED's allegidly last longer, and burn brighter than the incadescent bulbs.

I have installed them in the rear of a bunch of semi trailers.

However, the HD semi traileror tractor lamp is a bunch different than a single socket bulb in behind a fixed lens in a Vanagon.

There are from 6 to 20 LED lamps in each tailight assembly, and they have the proper lens to accomodate the bulb (s) behind it.

Yea they are bright, use more power from the source, and last longer.

I have never noticed,or was told by any manufacture, that light up time is faster.

If you have photo electric over electromagnetic brake assist system mounted in the front end of your Vanagon--yea your vehicle might be able to react faster to a stoppng LED brake ight equipt vehicle in front of you.

But seeing as no one has this Flash Gordon braking assist set up mounted in their Vans, I will have to say that a nanno second faster in them bulbs lighting up will give you no advantage.

I have never seen any late model vehicle with any sort of time delay between the third brake light, and the incadescent stop lamps on either corner.

If I was worried about this allegid time warp in the stop lamps lighting in the guys ride in front of me--I'd do one of two thing's first.

Slow down, or back off the guy in front of me.

In my opinion, a 100 bucks for some tail lights that allegidly light faster is a bit eccentric, and I by myself would never be able to make up the difference in the bulbs lighting up and me stopping anyway--neither would the brakes on any Vanagon.

Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:25 am

We are certainly all splitting hairs here in measuring the time!!

At the same time it's not my Vanagon's braking performance at question here. it's getting the attention of the guy behind me who is eating a cheeseburger while playing with his ipod.

If LEDs are more instantly noticeable that standard bulbs, either because of their brightness or illumination time, whichever, then maybe I get the attention of the guy behind me 20 feet sooner. At some point that may be well worth $100 investment.

Anecdotally, I DO notice LED bulbs in front of me in traffic more often because they are so "in your face". I may find them irritating, but I do notice, and that's the point, after all.

I'm sure that higher powered bulbs, like TK sells are an improvement over stock, and I'm sure that LEDs are an improvement. In the end, it's all good.

Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:24 am

if your so concerned, get the bright third brake light installed, and then connect it to one of those motorcycle flashing modules, - so it pulses the brake lights on/off as you come to a stop - totally legal to do to!

http://signaldynamics.com/products/BLSM/blsm.asp

pretty cheap all things considered.

Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:38 am

Hey - I agree - the flashing sequence makes good sense for the third brake light. Now, the question ... Who has been able to source out a third brake light that can be reliably retrofitted to a vanagon :?:

Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:27 pm

I believe from 87 on, federal mandate for 3rd brake light.
Try Junk yards. My 87's looks like a tack on but I think it's factory!

Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:36 pm

I was planning to order one of the 3rd Brake Light kits form www.danielsternlighting.com but have been to busy spending money on water pumps, gaskets, and other coolant stuff.

Looks like the "Model 39" would mount up nicely to the rear window. Go to the Products page, and scroll all the way to the bottom. LED, by the way.

Sat Feb 09, 2008 10:53 pm

hiram6 wrote: I was planning to order one of the 3rd Brake Light kits form www.danielsternlighting.com but have been to busy spending money on water pumps, gaskets, and other coolant stuff.

Looks like the "Model 39" would mount up nicely to the rear window. Go to the Products page, and scroll all the way to the bottom. LED, by the way.

I bought the "39" from Daniel. It is absolutely perfect for a Vanagon/Westy configuration - sets up nicely w/ the rear window pitch/angle. Perfect fit + an adjustable light source so you can aim it correctly towards oncoming traffic. The other nice feature is that Hella includes a gray u-shaped decal that you apply to the window before sticking on the light (u-shaped upside-down) - the effect is that from exterior you don't see the double stick tape, a much cleaner appearance. My daughter has our digital camera right now (and my cell phone camera sucks), I'll take a picture later today and post it on this thread.

Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:52 am

Found these - pretty reasonable price -
http://www.jcwhitney.com/Third-Brake-Light/600003037.jcw?in_dim_search=1

Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:53 pm

A day later than planned, but here are two pictures of my "39" 3rd brake light that I picked up from Daniel Stern (by Hella).

I mentioned that I liked the gray decal that hides the double-side tape. I forgot to mention that I like the clear lense too - nice clean look. Plus the curtains close over the light w/o any problems.

Mon Feb 11, 2008 10:51 pm

ebay works great!!

Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:34 am

I considered a solution like K58's ... but decided that I wanted a unit that would stick to the window instead. Two reasons - didn't want to have any chance of reflected light on the rear window/rear-view mirror at night and; can close the curtains and the brake light still can be seen from the outside.

Tue Feb 12, 2008 10:25 pm

rockfish! where did you hook up the 39's wire to?

Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:14 am

My factory light was just tapped into the left tail light harness. Ground must have been redone because it was just using one of the tail light screws. Still, works fine!